Chantry Steelhaven Hall-Boston Mage PBP
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

House Rules

5 posters

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Adley Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:36 am

I picked linguistics as a secondary skill particularly separate from languages in part due with my character's paradigm as it deals with the abstract parts of language itself, which is an important part of his personal paradigm development. Basically, linguistics can delve into structure and theory, sociology, psychology. You can learn about language constructions without even learning a particular language itself in a speaking/writing fluency sense. Language-study are in part a practical application to a degree and it's definitely related obviously (though there are also applied linguistics and many other sub-disciplines in each).

So yes in English Lit class, he read Chaucer, in Greek class he learned to speak and read Greek, in church he read the original text of the New Testament in Koine Greek. In Linguistics he studied languages abstractly - , uncover root principles underlaying human languages and describe language relationships and systems, and consider the relationship between meaning and sound (or symbol). For him this was studying the language tree (which is mirrored in the Umbra as the river of language), asking questions about why some languages were used or spread the way they did and how they shared similarities or differences, and how vibration (sound) affects the universe (which eventually led to his awakening alongside learning from his pater).

Adley

Posts : 6430
Join date : 2015-05-24

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Adley Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:41 pm

From what I've seen, an often asked question is how do you cast offensive fire magick in Mage on a mechanical level, specifically fireballs. So, since this is probably going to be relevant at sometime for my character I went through each step. M20 does it a bit differently than 2e or Rev, so if we are going to Houserule something we can discuss it here (also, if I've made an error let me know) -

Fireballs (and Lightning Bolts):
1 - Can your character do this magick (mechanically)?
You need to have Forces 3 and Prime 2 to conjure elements from ‘nothing.’
2 – Fireballs are an Openly Magickal Attack, with Violence as Focus:
Arete roll answers 'Does your magick succeed to manifest and by what extent does it manifest?'
The lowest base Difficulty for a Vulgar spell is the highest sphere involved (3) plus 4 without Sleeper witnesses or 5 with Sleeper witnesses. Penalties such as fast-casting in a fight, using quintessence and WP and other modifiers apply. You gain at least one paradox point every time you cast it, even if you succeed.
>Roll your character's Arete
> GM checks against threshold or degree of success necessary (whichever is being used). If you succeed, go to 3, and take your 1 pt earned paradox (unless you're inot in a normal consensus situation like a realm).
3 – Magick Attack rolls for targeted, physical Effects at range:
This roll answers 'Does your attack go where you want it to go?
>You roll dex+athletics to throw your fireball at the targeted area
4 - (Opposed) Defense: Defense answers the question of did your opponent get out of the way of where you were aiming? (This step can also take into account if the opposed target has magickal protections that reduce damage and can soak fire, etc).
The opponent makes an opposed roll and their successes subtract from your spell’s dmg impact on them (see below). This also means that if you miss or it’s partially deflected, the fireball energy goes somewhere else you may not have wanted it to go and you pull a Dresden
>Gm/Opponent rolls dex+ athletics or acrobatics to dodge incoming at diff 6 for the target
5 – Damage: Damage answers the question 'how much did it hurt them?'
Your character's Dmg Dice pool is the number of your successful dice on your Magick Attack (in 3) minus one, then minus your opponent's success at defending themselves. The pool difficulty is 6. The damage type is aggravated and you get 1 extra die automatically for it being Fire (electricity also gets this bonus but has it's own table for damage). The base damage output is 2 HL for 2 success, 6 HL for 3 successes, etc based on the Base Damage or Duration chart, M20 504. (There is also an optional dividing success rule that would add +2 HL damage per success after the first instead of the flat rate provided in the table This is useful if you are casting on multiple targets in a given area, or want to cause an Environmental Hazard by dumping successes into either duration or damage).

Overall, casting a fireball is hard in today's consensus thanks to the Technocracy and it quickly adds up paradox as you get at least one per casting, unless you are in a realm, but if you hit them it has the potential of hurting quite a bit for agg damage which is very hard to heal (Life 3 and it is vulgar to heal it)

Adley

Posts : 6430
Join date : 2015-05-24

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Jeremy Silverstein Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Strife wrote:5 – Damage: Damage answers the question 'how much did it hurt them?'
Your character's Dmg Dice pool is the number of your successful dice on your Magick Attack (in 3) minus one, then minus your opponent's success at defending themselves. The pool difficulty is 6. The damage type is aggravated and you get 1 extra die automatically for it being Fire (electricity also gets this bonus but has it's own table for damage). The base damage output is 2 HL for 2 success, 6 HL for 3 successes, etc based on the Base Damage or Duration chart, M20 504. (There is also an optional dividing success rule that would add +2 HL damage per success after the first instead of the flat rate provided in the table This is useful if you are casting on multiple targets in a given area, or want to cause an Environmental Hazard by dumping successes into either duration or damage).

I believe using forces automatically gives you one success in regards to damage, as long as your doing a damaging type of spell (doesn't need to be fire). So if you get 2 successes on the arete roll you will deal 6 health levels of lethal/aggravated damage since you get one auto success.

Also those are health levels of damage right? Not damage dice pools. You don't roll for damage when using magickal attacks.
Jeremy Silverstein
Jeremy Silverstein

Posts : 5042
Join date : 2017-08-16

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:04 pm

Give yourself two free exp for posting this Strife like we discussed.

Well since we are using a 2 edition setting I do think the 2 and1 edition rule where you can change forces at F2 have been mentioned a few times so perhaps we have to leave that as possible not to have to ret con the game.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Adley Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:19 pm

The damage output is HL yes, taken from the Damage or Duration chart, which outlines a flat rate - there is also the dividing successes table, optional. Thx.

Okay - so if we're using 2e rules for Forces,are we just roll the Arete?

Adley

Posts : 6430
Join date : 2015-05-24

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:42 pm

I am not sure we could ret con it as well since this do work very well it really depend on what the rest of you want and especially you since you are the one with a character who use Forces the most though Colin and Nicole also have some.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Warpmind Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:59 pm

Colin's not been using Forces offensively yet - it's coming, he just needs a couple of dots in it first. Razz

He's been flinging Prime Bolts, though, which is quite comparable mechanically.

And I figure Colin's not going to be throwing fireballs anytime soon - but at F2, I expect he'll be doing some innovative things with the electric grid and sound. Wink
Warpmind
Warpmind

Posts : 10691
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 44
Location : Knarvik, Norway

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:24 pm

I have no idea. I am admittedly weak on the 'crunch' part of MtA [having never ST'd it], I won't be the one doing all these calculations and Nicole won't ever throw a fireball. If she starts lobbing around say Prime/Forces electricity it'll be via say a "Tazer Rifle" which I suspect would involve her Firearms rolls and think the Great One might rule as coincidental [as it's 'within imagining range' for most Sleepers and sorta-fits within the global consensus].
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:32 pm

Tazer Rifle" which I suspect would involve her Firearms rolls and think the Great One might rule as coincidental [as it's 'within imagining range' for most Sleepers and sorta-fits within the global consensus].

If it is not to far on the oh shit oh meter compared to a regular weapon it is coincidental yes, might still use the lightening bolt rules though.

He's been flinging Prime Bolts, though, which is quite comparable mechanically.

Yes but with simpler mechanics.

And I figure Colin's not going to be throwing fireballs anytime soon - but at F2, I expect he'll be doing some innovative things with the electric grid and sound. Wink

You can still do this at F2 in M20 I think.

Basically 2 ed have simpler mechanics and magick is more powerful but the M20 mechanics are more complicated but also more detailed and streamlined as earlier editions crunch could be a bit of a clusterfuck at times.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Warpmind Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:33 pm

Yeah, Nicole would likely be using the Firearms skill to aim - or possibly Brawl or Melee, if using an augmentation in her arm. Aiming would generally be Dex-based, but the skill would depend on the Paradigm and the Focus, I figure.
Warpmind
Warpmind

Posts : 10691
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 44
Location : Knarvik, Norway

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:36 pm

Agreed on that, firearms skill I would say.

Ok I have to get a few things done so I will reply more later.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Wed May 01, 2019 1:52 am

Wouldn't aiming be Perception? I mean, if it's Dexterity it means that it's theoretically possible that a blind person [aka Perception 0] could make a good sharpshooter...

Anyway, there's lots of mundane things high on the "oh shit" meter. A chain-gun, for starters.
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed May 01, 2019 8:32 am

Is not firearms Dexterity based? It is what all my GMs have always had me roll but I will check.

Well by WoD rules with you have a 7 year old who have taken a cooking class at school, so she have 1 in Cooking but she is atlectic and so she have 5 in Dex she is as good at cooking as a old star chef who is starting to slow down with age so he have 1 in Dex but 5 in cooking they have as many dice in their pool, here is where common sense comes in and fudging it to be a bit more realistic.

The mundane Oh shit of meter do not give Paradox.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Adley Wed May 01, 2019 9:52 am

Using gun magick is often coincidental and super useful, which is why Adley shoots stuff a lot more with a gun than he uses blatant magick. But making magick talisman/stuff I haven't looked hard at beyond enchantments. But yeah this is why I sat down and really thought about it step by step, so it's all in agreement and if I gussed it up people would tell me : )

Nicole will probably not be doing a whole lot of Vulgar-as mystic spellslinging due to paradigm, no but she will probably want to make cool toys though, mod current stuff, repair stuff, or use them as a focus to do Science. Or make something out of the cars and etc. I remember reading Forged in Dragon's Fire and while it was full of cool ideas, the mechanics were not easy to get my brain to wrap around. There seem to be sensible outline on how to do different kinds of things in M20 starting on page 463, and there are types of magick/Science things that can be made or done. I haven't run through what it would be like to build something with it, though like I did above with Fireball.

The rules for energy guns and hypertech in M20 start around pg 296. Basically, you can choose to buy Energy Weapons as a secondary ability. (You can also get Hypertech, which allows you to try to figure out weird devices). But I would say otherwise it's Firearms for 'gun like' things

Adley

Posts : 6430
Join date : 2015-05-24

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed May 01, 2019 10:51 am

Great information I have to look that up as well. I am afraid I am allot less skilled with the crunch than with the setting.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Wed May 01, 2019 2:50 pm

Yes, Firearms is Dexterity. I was pointing out the stupidity of it ['a blind sniper'], which is legal according to Da Rules.

Nicole might end up doing more vulgar than you'd think. Depending on how Great One plays it, they might rule that the 'global paradigm' on the Mudball is not a constant but situational; that there's places which are more open to the 'mystical' worldviews - such as the wilderness, technologically backward areas or say Native Reservations, New Age communes etc. This may be even worse on Horizon if it's populated by folk who aren't even familiar with the principles of Sleeper science.

We actually discussed this when Nicole entered play; I'd spotted the mentioning that 'magick performed in Chantry gets a difficulty break' [or words to that effect] which could also mean 'Science performed in Chantry gets a difficulty penalty'. It's also mentioned in Background: Sanctum - if you took it to it's logical conclusion, it's possible that Doissetep's main defences against the Union is the simple fact that the local consensus is *so* mystical any HIT-Mark, particle cannon or cyborg shock-troop etc that comes near simply falls apart/fails/explodes etc due to Paradox.

In my opinion, many Secondaries can be deeply flawed. Firstly, it needs to occupy a space which is realistically not occupied by a 'Primary' - example, I'd refuse to grant 'Gunsmithing' as it could be covered well enough by Crafts [with perhaps a bit of a difficulty break with Firearms]. However, I'd grant 'Archery', 'Pilot' and 'Animal Ken' - easy enough, as two are 'Primaries' in other WoD games.

Secondly, it needs to be well-defined on what it covers. Let's take the laser rifle as an example. If the ST rules that 'Firearms' could be used to use the rifle, this could mean that the character with 'E. Weapons' [Char A] could paradoxically be worse [smaller die pool] than the character without it [Char B].

This leads - in my mind [plus ST hat] to three solutions.

#1: If you don't have it, you can't attempt. So Char A could use the laser rifle but B couldn't.

#2: If you don't have it, you pay the penalty for the lack. So A & B use their 'Firearms' pools, but B is at +1 difficulty.

#3: Secondaries reduce difficulty. So 'laser rifle' was at difficulty 9 in operation - so A would be rolling Firearms at diff 7 while B was doing it at 9.

The Great One and I have already discussed a variant of this conversation, as Nicole has a Secondary - Scrounging. [I basically see it as a bridging Ability between the main 'Streetwise' and 'Survival' ones]. And if I remember right, we basically agreed it would usually be used in solution #3.
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed May 01, 2019 4:57 pm

Yes, Firearms is Dexterity. I was pointing out the stupidity of it ['a blind sniper'], which is legal according to Da Rules.

The storyteller system is simple to use but impress things like this are the issues that comes up with it. I will however rule against the crunch where it makes no sense what so ever, like if you have a blind sniper, unless they have some sort of powers to compensate.

Nicole might end up doing more vulgar than you'd think. Depending on how Great One plays it, they might rule that the 'global paradigm' on the Mudball is not a constant but situational; that there's places which are more open to the 'mystical' worldviews - such as the wilderness, technologically backward areas or say Native Reservations, New Age communes etc. This may be even worse on Horizon if it's populated by folk who aren't even familiar with the principles of Sleeper science.

This is actually so, cannon in the rules you have reality zones so for example on the countryside of Haiti mystical magick will be less vulgar than in Silicon Valley. However on Horizon both mystical and technological magick are coincidental other than in extreme cases.

We actually discussed this when Nicole entered play; I'd spotted the mentioning that 'magick performed in Chantry gets a difficulty break' [or words to that effect] which could also mean 'Science performed in Chantry gets a difficulty penalty'. It's also mentioned in Background: Sanctum - if you took it to it's logical conclusion, it's possible that Doissetep's main defences against the Union is the simple fact that the local consensus is *so* mystical any HIT-Mark, particle cannon or cyborg shock-troop etc that comes near simply falls apart/fails/explodes etc due to Paradox.

The thing is technology and science and magick are not really opposites the Traditions and the Union are, most Traditionalist area will know there are Technomacgic and so it do not cause more Paradox to Technomagick even if mystical magick is coincidental this is not the computer game Arcanum, it is not about science vs magick it is about world views and one can have a world view where both magick and science is real.

In my opinion, many Secondaries can be deeply flawed. Firstly, it needs to occupy a space which is realistically not occupied by a 'Primary' - example, I'd refuse to grant 'Gunsmithing' as it could be covered well enough by Crafts [with perhaps a bit of a difficulty break with Firearms]. However, I'd grant 'Archery', 'Pilot' and 'Animal Ken' - easy enough, as two are 'Primaries' in other WoD games.

Secondly, it needs to be well-defined on what it covers. Let's take the laser rifle as an example. If the ST rules that 'Firearms' could be used to use the rifle, this could mean that the character with 'E. Weapons' [Char A] could paradoxically be worse [smaller die pool] than the character without it [Char B].

True then again secondaries are more limited abilities and they calso cost less to buy and increase.

This leads - in my mind [plus ST hat] to three solutions.

#1: If you don't have it, you can't attempt. So Char A could use the laser rifle but B couldn't.

#2: If you don't have it, you pay the penalty for the lack. So A & B use their 'Firearms' pools, but B is at +1 difficulty.

#3: Secondaries reduce difficulty. So 'laser rifle' was at difficulty 9 in operation - so A would be rolling Firearms at diff 7 while B was doing it at 9.

You can try to do something if you have a primary skill that fit, but it will be easier if you happen to have the correct secondary. I think we will go with that.


The Great One and I have already discussed a variant of this conversation, as Nicole has a Secondary - Scrounging. [I basically see it as a bridging Ability between the main 'Streetwise' and 'Survival' ones]. And if I remember right, we basically agreed it would usually be used in solution #3.

Yes that is how we have used it and I do think that fit as a way to do it.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Wed May 01, 2019 7:01 pm

Anja's Post wrote:The thing is technology and science and magick are not really opposites the Traditions and the Union are, most Traditionalist area will know there are Technomacgic and so it do not cause more Paradox to Technomagick even if mystical magick is coincidental this is not the computer game Arcanum, it is not about science vs magick it is about world views and one can have a world view where both magick and science is real.

Problem is, having a 'everything is possible' ruling consensus-wise would kinda cripple half of the Sanctum background [if they were in the same location, that is]. And isn't it possible that the 'broadening of local consensus' in say Horizon realms means one of the defences have weakened [as it can now support Enlightened Science, which it didn't in say the 19th Century].

As for Secondaries... yes, they cost less XP than a Primary. But not hugely. So they'd to a) fill a genuine gap, b) be something which is usable and c) be worthwhile taking. To go back to Nicole's own example; if you started doing Scrounging + [Attribute] rolls rather than her higher Streetwise/Survival + [Attribute] rolls at the same difficulty... well, I've just paid XP to make the character 'less capable' and I'd have been better advised to simply forego Scrounging and leave that XP for some more Streetwise/Survival.

Not saying you do this, Great One; but one I've seen done by other ST's. And - to my recollection - this problem is not mentioned in any of the core books.
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed May 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Problem is, having a 'everything is possible' ruling consensus-wise would kinda cripple half of the Sanctum background [if they were in the same location, that is]. And isn't it possible that the 'broadening of local consensus' in say Horizon realms means one of the defences have weakened [as it can now support Enlightened Science, which it didn't in say the 19th Century].

Not all Sanctums will have everything be possible a Sanctum is defined by the Paradigm of the mage it belong to so for a a mage convinced that all magick is due to the grace of God, only that will be Coincidental in that Sanctum. However for a place like Horizon who have people from all over the world that is another matter. There are mystical realms that do not support Enlightened Science absolutely, realms stuck in a mystical time period but that do not include Horizon and Dositeppe. Also it is not about defense, you do not sit and decide what will be or not be the rules of the world, the consensus of minds in said realm do.

As for Secondaries... yes, they cost less XP than a Primary. But not hugely. So they'd to a) fill a genuine gap, b) be something which is usable and c) be worthwhile taking. To go back to Nicole's own example; if you started doing Scrounging + [Attribute] rolls rather than her higher Streetwise/Survival + [Attribute] rolls at the same difficulty... well, I've just paid XP to make the character 'less capable' and I'd have been better advised to simply forego Scrounging and leave that XP for some more Streetwise/Survival.

They are about half the cost in 2 edition at least but yes we can keep them being something that lowers the diff for a primary roll.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Wed May 01, 2019 8:17 pm

Sanctum: What I meant was this. One of the benefits of a Sanctum is that the 'local consensus' effectively mirrors the owner's paradigm. If said Sanctum is within a Chantry with a 'everything is possible' consensus [where the Sanctum's owner's paradigm is already accepted] it means the Sanctum benefit is partly nullified. That is unless the two benefits stack...

I was talking of 'historical' Horizon realms [such as 'Doissetep, c1875'] - a time before the Etherite defection, populated by people generally unaware of the Industrial Revolution and with a dismissive attitude towards science in general ['belief in progress and tech' being one of the things the Victorians gave us]. That over the decades since then, the local consensus has gradually shifted to accept science, and then Science.

What I mean as 'defence' is the general 'this thing helps the defenders'. In WWII, Resistance groups liked forest-covered mountains, as it stopped tanks and they could hide under the forest cover from planes. Nobody wished them to be there; they just were. But, by 2019 the defences have 'eroded' as the enemy now would have attack helicopters, missiles and infra-red cameras to catch the La Resistance.
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Adley Wed May 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Yes, Firearms is Dexterity. I was pointing out the stupidity of it ['a blind sniper'], which is legal according to Da Rules.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If we want to delve into how some of the mechanics don't reflect real life, then it will be a long thread lol. My hubs brings this up whenever I show him any sort of RPG xD  I think the best that can happen is accept as a concession and hope overall it's balanced-ish within it's own context. He laughed when I showed him the charts for the weapons and said, none of this makes sense and launched into a very long 'reason why' oration that, in summary, says that's not how range works, limitation of action by rounds is stupid, and also, the damage output is not right. We had the same talk with D&D too. I've used Correspondence with auditory sensory as a targeting mechanism, echolocation spells, etc. I guess it's possible, kind of like Daredevil, but like lots of stuff the concept has to be more than 'allowed by rules' to be viable.


Secondary abilities (talents, etc) can be useful, but partly it is also a roleplaying thing and represent a more rare and refined kind of ability that characters may have, ie, pilot hovercraft or hypertech. Hypertech is not your regular tech, it represents specifically being able to use and figure out strange or alien types of devices. If you have Jury Rig your character is /just better/ at making shit on the fly. Mechanically they spread out the dice pool, but they cost less and feel more like an added expertise. They also fit thematically as part of alot of practices and tools for mages.

There are two camps in general, minimalists who want to reduce things to as few rolls as possible and want to maximize what each one can do in a broad sense, and those who like the added flavor and variety, with niche applications available if you want them. For some secondaries specific groups can use them for magick too. Also mage is not really about making characters that are stated out and built perfectly, it's about what fits the character's paradigm (because that ties into their magick). So if your character is into blowing shit up, Demolitions makes sense, or if they rely on archery for a focus, etc. Having a general skill is fine for lots of things. Plus, I think we get a lot more XP than most games anyway, even considering how the difficulties and dice pools work, it does sometimes make sense.

In the Rev game I played before, the GM was more strict and encouraged use of secondaries. If you did not have the a related specialization (rank 4 or 5) or the secondary ability for certain kinds of specializations you couldn't try to do them but for applicable stuff that seemed related you could try but at a higher difficulty (or it took longer, as you needed to figure it out first). It was dependent on the situation, but consistent in application.

Adley

Posts : 6430
Join date : 2015-05-24

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed May 01, 2019 8:32 pm

Sanctum: What I meant was this. One of the benefits of a Sanctum is that the 'local consensus' effectively mirrors the owner's paradigm. If said Sanctum is within a Chantry with a 'everything is possible' consensus [where the Sanctum's owner's paradigm is already accepted] it means the Sanctum benefit is partly nullified. That is unless the two benefits stack...

In a personal Sanctum it would have the reality of the owner's Paradigm. In a mixed reality zone like Steelhaven there is not just one Paradigm but rather a fairly loose one which allow for magick, all kind of magick including technomagick. A mage can still have a personal Sanctum Colin have one for example where his own personal Paradigm apply. I do not see how this diminish anything.

I was talking of 'historical' Horizon realms [such as 'Doissetep, c1875'] - a time before the Etherite defection, populated by people generally unaware of the Industrial Revolution and with a dismissive attitude towards science in general ['belief in progress and tech' being one of the things the Victorians gave us]. That over the decades since then, the local consensus has gradually shifted to accept science, and then Science.

The Consensus generally are not Static. Horizon was created in the early 1400 now it have both mystics and Technomancers living there though. Dositeppe have gotten allot of new members over the years, and they have Technomancers living there as well and the magi there have traveled to and frowm other realms so they are not unaware of the industrial revolution, but yes there are realms which are more isolated where just Mystic Paradigms are the Consensus yes.

What I mean as 'defence' is the general 'this thing helps the defenders'. In WWII, Resistance groups liked forest-covered mountains, as it stopped tanks and they could hide under the forest cover from planes. Nobody wished them to be there; they just were. But, by 2019 the defences have 'eroded' as the enemy now would have attack helicopters, missiles and infra-red cameras to catch the La Resistance.

I understood that but the consensus do not base itself on what will give the crunch benefit to one side or another.
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Anja Rebekka Schultze
Admin

Posts : 20400
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 42
Location : Sotra (Norway)

https://chantrysteelhaven.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Warpmind Wed May 01, 2019 9:12 pm

Noting that Colin's Sanctum is his workshop in the basement of his shop - it it were in the Chantry proper, I think it would be reasonable that he and Hermetics in particular would find their magic to come just a little easier than outside, possibly only imperceptibly so compared to the Chantry proper, but Technomancers might not find any appreciable benefit to working there - or possibly even a minor impairment to their work, as the Sanctum is attuned to the particular Paradigm of the Mage who owns it. Colin's not a Hermetic, but some of his approaches and methods do mirror theirs more than any other Tradition, and so they might benefit from such overlap. He can't quite figure out how Scientists do their work (though he can understand the most fundamental principles), nor, say, how the Akashics do theirs, and so his Sanctum would be less generous to their methods.

As it is, though, relatively few people are invited into his Sanctum in any case, for fairly obvious reasons. Not even counting the torpid vampire hidden behind the sheet silver. Wink
Warpmind
Warpmind

Posts : 10691
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 44
Location : Knarvik, Norway

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Nicole Bouchard Wed May 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Secondaries: Hypertech fills a slot which isn't really covered. 'Jury-Rig' is very close to 'Crafts' - so close in fact I once took the former as a speciality for the latter. I'm more in the 'minimalist' camp; partly 'cos if sheets get too bloated I end up [as ST] simply forgetting about stuff. And while I usually engage in a bit of 'flavour spending', I'm not going to do much of it as it does reduce the character's core capabilities. Example with Nicole is her cooking abilities - something which could theoretically be expressed as a Secondary. However, I've not bothered even asking about that as I don't think the Great One would ever need to do a roll on Nick's ability to say make a cake.

Sanctum: Magick performed within Sanctum is at reduced difficulty. Normally, magick cast within Chantry is also at reduced difficulty. All I was wondering was: if the Sanctum is within a Chantry, do the difficulty reductions stack or not?

Local Consensus: I know it doesn't base itself on what the crunch benefit is to one side or the other. My point is that as the consensus changes, some things become more/less possible with time. And sometimes, folk don't realise this until it's too late. In my 'Doissetep, c1875' example it could be the consensus at that time didn't allow say the deployment of Union Hypertech toys. In c2015, the Union can deploy such things now... but the defenders haven't realised this. It's the Mage equivalent of the French High Command in 1940, blithely stating "the Ardennes is impassable to tanks" on the basis that "it was impassible before".
Nicole Bouchard
Nicole Bouchard

Posts : 6130
Join date : 2017-09-05
Age : 37

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Warpmind Wed May 01, 2019 9:46 pm

I'd say the Sanctum bonus stacks with the Chantry bonus for the Mage who owns the Sanctum, and possibly for Magi who share their Paradigm.
Warpmind
Warpmind

Posts : 10691
Join date : 2015-05-22
Age : 44
Location : Knarvik, Norway

Back to top Go down

House Rules - Page 2 Empty Re: House Rules

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum