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Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Well I am mostly a Socialist, I can not really say there is one political movement I fully agree with but I think democratic socialism gets it the closest to right, and I think right out Communism is extreme and if I had to choose between the crooked Capitalism of USA and Stalin's regime I would choose crooked Capitalism in a heartbeat. But yes I am also on the left. I want there to be equality for all I just think that some of the arguments of the left lately have gotten insane. For example the notion that if you are bi sexual then you are transphobic as you are bi, as in liking both genders and that might exclude non binary. I mean everyone have to be allowed to choose who they are attracted to without being called a bigot. Or how if you are not able to correctly pronounce a name from a completely different language group than what you speak then you are racist...unless off course the name someone can not pronounce is European, struggling with Celtic names or a name such as Hjørdis is completely fine, not pronouncing a African name 100 percent right makes you Hitler, no matter that if you have grown up with one language chances are there will always be a bit of a wrong pronunciation of words from another one. I speak English fluently but I do have an accent, it is how language works. Another thing that makes you a racist apparently is not knowing if a person with the name Kaya use a eee or a ah sound, I mean it can be either ut if you take a guess and get it wrong you are racist. The problem is that when one scream and shout about things like that, it drown actually real issues that need to be dealt with and changed and makes everyone on the left just seam unreasonable. That being said I really think we should move the discussion as I want this game to be friendly to anyone regardless of political opinions so long OOC political discussions hould be had in the general section and not in the IC thread.
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:20 pm

Your view is something echoed by old British Labour people like Ernest Bevin; 'I would drop socialism in a second if I felt it was incompatible with liberty'. Which I agree with.

My objection was [and still is] that those progressive bigots are somehow 'left wing'. They're not. What they've managed to do is hijack left-wing parties and turn them towards their own desires and goals - which started in the 1980s when the left intelligentsia basically abandoned the calls for economic justice, 'made peace' with neoliberal economics and thought 'social justice' could fill the gap in the various 'Third Way' eras as a guiding ethos. [I have a feeing I may end up writing a blog post on this].

The problem is - more than anything else - is that this social justice thing has become the new orthodoxy, and as such it's become difficult to argue against it from a genuine left-wing standpoint - and most of the other terms have been hijacked by the alt-right shitheads.

But it is possible to argue against it. Took me quite a bit of time and thought, but I eventually was able to put together a coherent argument. And after a got several forum responses of basically "social justice always gave me vague unease, and now I understand why" before I got banned by the Progressive bigots, I realised I wasn't a minority of one.

Now, I said at the time that I wasn't going to do this, but in this case I'll make an exception - as this blog post quite literally came out yesterday on this topic. Don't feel any obligation to actually read it [it's around 1,200 words] unless you really desire to, but it does allow me to spam a link for the purposes of getting me a touch higher on the old search engines...

https://talesfromtheminority.wordpress.com/2020/02/19/socialism-vs-identity-politics/

Hjørdis is Celtic? I thought that was Scandinavian.
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Post by Warpmind Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:43 pm

"Celtic names or a name such as Hjørdis" - Hjørdis is very much a Norwegian name.

But it was an easy misinterpretation to make.
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:57 pm

As a Celt, I find your lack of knowledge insulting, demeaning and whatever. You're worse than Hitler! *sarcastic smirk"
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Post by Warpmind Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:23 pm

As a Norwegian, I am very much assured that Hjørdis is a Norwegian name. Not many other languages use the ø, for starters. Razz
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:26 pm

That's discrimination against other languages! They're all perfectly allowed to self-identify with the use of ø! You're an ø-supremacist!

Question. What is ø?

*wider smirk*
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Post by Warpmind Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:14 am

It's pronounced pretty much like "uh".

You know, like when a burn hurts. Wink

Also "ø" translates to "island", as it happens, though that spelling has largely fallen out of favor some time after 1814. Mostly because it's mainly the Danish spelling of it; we tack a "y" on at the end. Razz
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:57 am

Personally, I'm more likely to put it down to the rollout of hot-metal printing, typewriters and finally word processors. There's been a marked tendency in the last c200 years for the various Latin languages to slowly fit closer to the 'norm', which allows the use of standardised typewriter keys etc. After all, ø is only used by... 20 million, max? Not sure how you'd do that on a 'standard' manual typewriter - o, [backspace] and then / overlaid?

We've seen this in English; the complete extinction of 'Æ' [though it's 'child' lives on the likes encyclopaedia etc], the critically endangered cedilla in 'façade', the rapid decline of the accent on 'cliché' and so on. Last year, the UK 'Apostrophe Protection Society' dissolved itself after stating it had lost the battle due to 'ignorance and laziness' [I'm more minded to blame tech].

So in short; globalisation was the enemy of ø. At least, that's my suspicion.
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Post by Warpmind Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:25 am

Yeah, the three special Norwegian letters are pretty rare.

Æ is only used by Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic and Faeroese (spelling?).

Ø is just in Danish, Noerwegian, and Faeroese (again).

Å is used in Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, and Vallonian, of all things...

The dwindling use of Æ is kind of ironic, seeing as it was originally a Latin shortening for "ae", just like @ was a Latin abbreviation for "ad"... Razz

But yeah, print with moveable type is guilty of the disappearance of many letters. Just ask any McKenzie in Scotland, for example. Razz
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:16 am

Well, in English 'Æ' is pronounced 'eye/aye'. So an older (and correct) pronunciation of 'encyclopaedia' is 'encylopayedia' while it's now become 'encylopeedia'.

While I'm not 100% I suspect Æ is a gift from the Vikings, along with the places called '-thorpe' and a grab-bag of words. Early modern English was 'codified' by the likes of Caxton, Chaucer, Shakespeare and the King James Bible; and the first two were southerners, the second from the Midlands and the last a committee who used the English used in the Royal Court in London.

If those folks had been from the old Danelaw and the capital was Jorvík York, Ø and Ð might have survived in English too.
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Post by Warpmind Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:31 am

The Vikings didn't use the Latin alphabet, as such. We adopted that, pretty much from, er, trade with the British isles and further south in Europe and surrounding areas. Razz
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:20 pm

True. But Old English - Old Norse were surprisingly close. It was only after the Norman conquest where they drifted apart.
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Post by Warpmind Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:23 am

On another note, how do you feel about the demand that Morris dancers should stop wearing blackface "because it's racist"? Razz

That one popped up a couple years ago.
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:50 am

It often pops up; along with gollywogs and other 'historical' things which now look -ist.

Blackface in the UK has a non-racist tradition; in the 18th Century criminals, poachers etc would black up as a form of disguise [as in not to be identified]. It became common enough to actually be made illegal to black up in - according to Wikipedia - in 1723. It is possible that the 'blackface Morris' stem from this tradition. But on to your point...

- It's only a variant of Morris seen in the English/Welsh borders; most never did black up.
- A lot of the 'old traditions' are in fact modern[ish] revivals from the Victorian/Edwardian Era.
- From what I've seen of Morris, the blackface isn't vital for the dance.

I'm all in favour of allowing said people to continue the black if they so wish, as long as they can actually prove it's really traditional [say, done before 1900] in their actual area. Though I'd suggest they change the paint a bit to make it a clear blue-black - and ensuring that any obvious racist-ness is removed. While a few will continue to bitch, if experience with the Lewes Bonfire is anything to go by, most folk are reasonable and while it will generate a momentary 'what the fuck?!', will settle down once they get the background.

Another 'historical problem'... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26369329
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Post by Nicole Bouchard Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Hived off from the IC thread...

Strife's Post wrote:// part of the reason that it's got a higher death rate (at least right now) is we're only testing for cases that are likely anyway, so there's testing bias (especially in the US where it's hard to get the test). There could be more people with less severe symptoms or carriers that don't get tested. It does seem to be more easily transmitted though than regular flu and live on surfaces longer. There is reason to be concerned and take reasonable precaution but people are buying entire stocks of everything like it's the purge, making it harder for those that might need extra protections.

I point to the Diamond Princess as the best example we've got so far to the Pangolin's Revenge coronavirius lethality - while they didn't test everyone, they did test anyone who had either showed symptoms and/or had been in contact with a positive case.

Total Crew Size: 3,700
Cases: 705
Cases with symptoms: 313
Deaths: 7

Therefore, we can say there's a 19% infection rate, if you catch it there's a 44% chance you'll show symptoms and if you're showing symptoms there's about a 2.3% chance you'll die (though bearing in mind all the fatalities were of pensioners). It's a self-selecting sample but the best one we've got so far; the only other location we can get stats on this size is China, and they're not being as open as we in the West would be about this (though to give credit, they're being very open by Chinese standards).

My comment about toilet roll mass-buying was that it was people buying just that. Or hand sanitiser. Or milk [well, here in UK]. What you going to eat? Milky toilet paper stew?

Great One's Post wrote:(OOC 2: Most who get the virus are not diagnosed, you have to either show considerable symptoms or have come into close contact with someone who have been confirmed to have the illness here in Norway to get tested. Most actually get very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all which is part of the reason why the illness spread so fast since there is allot of are infected and do not even know it walking around. Also unlike the flu who do at times kill healthy individuals as well this corona virus basically almost exclusively kill the elderly and sick. I am not saying one should not take precautions, one should wash one's hands and if one get symptoms one should stay home and call the doctor but when people just go nuts that is an extreme over reaction, no one need like 20 bottles of hand sanitizers.)

Great One is right. This thing doesn't cause a 'immune system overload' which was the reason why loads of young, healthy people died from say Spanish Flu in '18-'19. My working theory is that basically, we've lost the ability to accurately judge risk; similar could be said about anti-vaccers [unsurprisingly, I've done a blog post on this if anyone's interested].

I'm currently trying to work out why people are panicking, and why their actions are being so stupid.
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