The Node, the Trial and a Cybernetics Convention IC thread 60

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

(OOC: Nicole is talking with Carlos and heading towards the Umbra ship docks to see the captured Technocrat ship, Colin and Serge are interrogating Julianna, Snow and Thomas at Chantry Horizon. Happy gaming all.]

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Chantry Complex]

Thomas said nothing and just looked at you defiantly.

"Hmmmm...you look like a green sort of person. I'm gonna chalk that up as your favorite color." Serge said writing that down as if he were making notes. He didn't want to maintain eye contact with any of the prisoners for too long in case they could cast magick through that medium.

"It's important that we ask these sorts of questions. All these little things that make us people. Our favorite color. Our most hated music. Which Technocracy faction we'd eliminate first if given the chance. Oooh that's actually a good. Who would you eliminate first?" he mused.

(OOC: Happy Birthday Warp!)

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

"Hmmmm...you look like a green sort of person. I'm gonna chalk that up as your favorite color." Serge said writing that down as if he were making notes. He didn't want to maintain eye contact with any of the prisoners for too long in case they could cast magick through that medium.

Thomas did not say anything or react to what you was saying. Snow gave a slight chuckle though.

It's important that we ask these sorts of questions. All these little things that make us people. Our favorite color. Our most hated music. Which Technocracy faction we'd eliminate first if given the chance. Oooh that's actually a good. Who would you eliminate first?" he mused.

"The bloody Progenitors."
Snow muttered and Julianna just rolled her eyes.
"You are aware he is just trying to engage with you Snow to try to get something out of you."
She ashed.
"Yeah well he seam harmless enough Jul."
"That is how they get you."

[Warpmind]

[Chantry Complex]

"I have nothing to say to you."
Julianna said simply.
"You have nothing to offer and should I be kept alive then at least I will have the satisfaction of knowing I never gave you what you wanted."
She added with a slight shudder.

Colin shrugged, "Believe so if you wish. I do not depend on getting the information from you, it would just be a nice convenience as you were captured alive."

"I care about Crackle Mr Wainwright and I am grateful for she being taken care of, but make no mistake I am Fallen and I agree with the goals of the Fallen this world have to end to leave room for a better...cleaner world. I am not going tot alk."
Snow replied glancing over at Colin.

He nodded, "A new, greater Narnia, as it were... I can respect that desire, if not the methods, I just worry that when the time comes, there will be more old junk left behind of this world to litter the new one... It is, I suppose, the downside of the Black Spiral, that the remnants of previous existences will try to ruin the new ones, unless somehow properly resolved."

"Pets, spirits, former fallen. We do have a knack for saving people that others would generally ignore. Perhaps we'll also try and save all of the animals on Horizon as well. From whatever disaster is upcoming." Serge said matter-of-factly.

He walked over to Thomas and said, "Helloooo~. How's it going? Noticed you've been staying quiet over here. It's not like I'm asking important questions. Maybe your not an animal guy? How about another questions? What's your favorite color?"

Thomas said nothing and just looked at you defiantly.

Hmmmm...you look like a green sort of person. I'm gonna chalk that up as your favorite color." Serge said writing that down as if he were making notes. He didn't want to maintain eye contact with any of the prisoners for too long in case they could cast magick through that medium.

"It's important that we ask these sorts of questions. All these little things that make us people. Our favorite color. Our most hated music. Which Technocracy faction we'd eliminate first if given the chance. Oooh that's actually a good. Who would you eliminate first?" he mused.

"The bloody Progenitors."
Snow muttered and Julianna just rolled her eyes.
"You are aware he is just trying to engage with you Snow to try to get something out of you."
She ashed.
"Yeah well he seam harmless enough Jul."
"That is how they get you."

He chuckled, "Ah, yes, takes one to know one, I suppose; I'm sure you've played the part of the honeypot throughout your career, as well. Personally, I'd rather see the Syndicate's back broken first, with Iteration X's Computer being more of an actual priority target..."

((OOC: Thankee. I'm now 44, and creakier every year. ))

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

Colin shrugged, "Believe so if you wish. I do not depend on getting the information from you, it would just be a nice convenience as you were captured alive."

Julianna did not reply and just looked up at Colin.

He nodded, "A new, greater Narnia, as it were... I can respect that desire, if not the methods, I just worry that when the time comes, there will be more old junk left behind of this world to litter the new one... It is, I suppose, the downside of the Black Spiral, that the remnants of previous existences will try to ruin the new ones, unless somehow properly resolved."

"The Qlippoth eh? That what was originally the meaning of the term, little leftovers of threes of life...es...what are the plural...no matter, what popped up to speak darkness in our current world. But yes to create a perfect world this one would have to be completely destroyed and I fear it is not possible, think of the Gnostic ideas, the Archons guard this prison to closely and such deconstruction have to be spiritual not physical as just destroying...the world or worlds will not do it."
Snow replied.
"But it is a goal to work towards eh?"

He chuckled, "Ah, yes, takes one to know one, I suppose; I'm sure you've played the part of the honeypot throughout your career, as well. Personally, I'd rather see the Syndicate's back broken first, with Iteration X's Computer being more of an actual priority target..."

"Maybe both the Iteration X and the Progenitors are the ones most concerned about destroying magick, but the Progenitors are more at odds with the Verbena. As for the Syndicate we are Nephandi Mr Wainwright we love the Syndicate they work for us they just don't know it."
Snow replied, which earned her another scowl from Julianna.
"You know the Master of the Realm would punish you for talking."
"Yeah well I will be Gilgulled so what exactly is she going to do? Piss at my tombstone?"
"Sigh for fuck sake Snow!"
The rest of the conversation was held in the horrible, screeching Nephandi langugage as the two Nephandae argued.
"For fuck sake for those of us who are Infernalists and not Fallen that sounds like you are playing violin on cat entrails with the cat still alive just shut up!"
Thomas finally shouted and the two Nephandae looked at him and settled down.
"Sorry"
Snow muttered.

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Chantry Complex]

"The bloody Progenitors."
Snow muttered and Julianna just rolled her eyes.
"You are aware he is just trying to engage with you Snow to try to get something out of you."
She ashed.
"Yeah well he seam harmless enough Jul."
"That is how they get you."

He chuckled, "Ah, yes, takes one to know one, I suppose; I'm sure you've played the part of the honeypot throughout your career, as well. Personally, I'd rather see the Syndicate's back broken first, with Iteration X's Computer being more of an actual priority target..."

"Maybe both the Iteration X and the Progenitors are the ones most concerned about destroying magick, but the Progenitors are more at odds with the Verbena. As for the Syndicate we are Nephandi Mr Wainwright we love the Syndicate they work for us they just don't know it."
Snow replied, which earned her another scowl from Julianna.
"You know the Master of the Realm would punish you for talking."
"Yeah well I will be Gilgulled so what exactly is she going to do? Piss at my tombstone?"
"Sigh for fuck sake Snow!"
The rest of the conversation was held in the horrible, screeching Nephandi langugage as the two Nephandae argued.
"For fuck sake for those of us who are Infernalists and not Fallen that sounds like you are playing violin on cat entrails with the cat still alive just shut up!"
Thomas finally shouted and the two Nephandae looked at him and settled down.
"Sorry"
Snow muttered.

"She might piss on your tombstone if her wardrobe is anything to go by." Serge said as he made notes of the outburst made by the prisoner, each revealing a small sliver of information. "For the record I'm also in the 'Destroy the Syndicate' camp. The other factions at least do something cool. The Syndicate just destroy the world in the most boring way possible. And they power the Technocracy as a whole so getting rid of them weakens the Technocracy as well."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

She might piss on your tombstone if her wardrobe is anything to go by." Serge said as he made notes of the outburst made by the prisoner, each revealing a small sliver of information. "For the record I'm also in the 'Destroy the Syndicate' camp. The other factions at least do something cool. The Syndicate just destroy the world in the most boring way possible. And they power the Technocracy as a whole so getting rid of them weakens the Technocracy as well."

"I was not aware you had been to our Labyrinth and met our leader."
Snow said raising an eyebrow.
"And yeah if the goal was to take out the Union then take out the Syndicate but that do not benefit us, first of ass a two sided war would be much more dangerous for us and also the soulless materialism of the Union benefit out goals, the Progenitors though are dicks so they have to go."

[Warpmind]

[Chantry Complex]

"The Qlippoth eh? That what was originally the meaning of the term, little leftovers of threes of life...es...what are the plural...no matter, what popped up to speak darkness in our current world. But yes to create a perfect world this one would have to be completely destroyed and I fear it is not possible, think of the Gnostic ideas, the Archons guard this prison to closely and such deconstruction have to be spiritual not physical as just destroying...the world or worlds will not do it."
Snow replied.
"But it is a goal to work towards eh?"

Colin nodded, "The plural would be Trees of Life, similar to pine trees or birch trees, but grammar is besides the point right now. And while I disagree in principle with the unmaking of the world, I am very much interested in finishing the job with the prior existences, to make sure the Qlippothic beings bloody well stop making a pig's dinner of this one. With that out of the way, we might actually have a decent shot at fixing things instead of breaking everything down and hoping for the best in the next cycle..."

"Maybe both the Iteration X and the Progenitors are the ones most concerned about destroying magick, but the Progenitors are more at odds with the Verbena. As for the Syndicate we are Nephandi Mr Wainwright we love the Syndicate they work for us they just don't know it."
Snow replied, which earned her another scowl from Julianna.
"You know the Master of the Realm would punish you for talking."
"Yeah well I will be Gilgulled so what exactly is she going to do? Piss at my tombstone?"
"Sigh for fuck sake Snow!"
The rest of the conversation was held in the horrible, screeching Nephandi langugage as the two Nephandae argued.
"For fuck sake for those of us who are Infernalists and not Fallen that sounds like you are playing violin on cat entrails with the cat still alive just shut up!"
Thomas finally shouted and the two Nephandae looked at him and settled down.
"Sorry"
Snow muttered.

He chuckled softly, trying to make out what he could of the Fallen language, "We know the Sndicate are mostly oblivious little shits. With the exception of a few, like Erik Dahl, of course. That was a hell of a mop-up job... Also, temper, temper, Julianna, Snow isn't quite that bad."

"She might piss on your tombstone if her wardrobe is anything to go by." Serge said as he made notes of the outburst made by the prisoner, each revealing a small sliver of information. "For the record I'm also in the 'Destroy the Syndicate' camp. The other factions at least do something cool. The Syndicate just destroy the world in the most boring way possible. And they power the Technocracy as a whole so getting rid of them weakens the Technocracy as well."

"I was not aware you had been to our Labyrinth and met our leader."
Snow said raising an eyebrow.
"And yeah if the goal was to take out the Union then take out the Syndicate but that do not benefit us, first of ass a two sided war would be much more dangerous for us and also the soulless materialism of the Union benefit out goals, the Progenitors though are dicks so they have to go."

He shrugged, "Perhaps not your Gilledian, but Jodi is a known nuisance. I shall allow that she does impress to some extent, chasing a Star Trek-esque shuttlecraft on foot through the Umbra, but it seems she lacked the fortitude to maintain the pursuit. Sloppy, sloppy..."

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Concordia]

Anja's Post:

'I claim entrapment, mon. You know I hate when shit like "this is common sense" is used for justification with nothing more past it. Common sense might exist, but it don't mean it is always right.' in a faux-sulky tone, fishing out the bag of Horizon cash she'd got earlier.

Anja's Post:

'Yes... hmm, wonder if we'd have picked up that fucking lab earlier if we had this tech and had used it to monitor our own 'hood.' she mused, seeing it as an angle to get buy-in from her fellow technomancers - while this was her idea, she was very aware she lacked the engineering and programming skills to make the thing work.

Anja's Post:

'Hmm?' she replied, halfway through lighting a cigarette, then fumbling with her phone to check the time. 'Go on, just like an espresso or something. Think we don't have time to get one back at TimeStop.'

[In regards to the likes of Verbena, Order of Hermes and Dreamspeakers, this 'help the sleepers ethos' is secret; as in 'I never saw it' in any canon text. Is this Word Of God?]

[Sorry for the delay; have been very busy. Stupid people refuse to do the stuff so I can decorate and furnish my new flat! Grrr....]

[Oh, Nick is still trying to pay the lunch bill so they can leave.]

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

Colin nodded, "The plural would be Trees of Life, similar to pine trees or birch trees, but grammar is besides the point right now. And while I disagree in principle with the unmaking of the world, I am very much interested in finishing the job with the prior existences, to make sure the Qlippothic beings bloody well stop making a pig's dinner of this one. With that out of the way, we might actually have a decent shot at fixing things instead of breaking everything down and hoping for the best in the next cycle..."

"There is nothing that can be done for this world it is far beyond help."
Snow said sadly.
"The only way forward is to burn it and start fresh."

He chuckled softly, trying to make out what he could of the Fallen language, "We know the Sndicate are mostly oblivious little shits. With the exception of a few, like Erik Dahl, of course. That was a hell of a mop-up job... Also, temper, temper, Julianna, Snow isn't quite that bad."

Julianna said.
"Snow this is basic interrogation methods, be friendly and engage with the prisoner or try to say something that they want to refute, all of this they can learn something from, your best bet is to say nothing or just repeat your name or a simple phrase like I have nothing to say to each question."
Snow sigh and replied.
"I know I know, but there is nothing after this right, a trial and then...I guess talking just help keep my mind of it."
Julianna nodded.
"I know and I am afraid as well but keep your mouth shut or our sacrifice will be for nothing."

He shrugged, "Perhaps not your Gilledian, but Jodi is a known nuisance. I shall allow that she does impress to some extent, chasing a Star Trek-esque shuttlecraft on foot through the Umbra, but it seems she lacked the fortitude to maintain the pursuit. Sloppy, sloppy..."

"I really have nothing to say to that."
Snow said glancing over at Julianna.

[Concordia]

'I claim entrapment, mon. You know I hate when shit like "this is common sense" is used for justification with nothing more past it. Common sense might exist, but it don't mean it is always right.' in a faux-sulky tone, fishing out her

"It is not always right, however some things tend to be and do not need a long study to be used. Like I said I tend to look at it this way, the cost of doing a thing vs the cost of what you are trying to prevent or achieve. For example to me it sound pretty sensible to have warm soup when I have a cold, I am not a doctor but drinking something warm help kill germs, and it is something at is nutritious and easy to eat so it seam to be to be good common sense, also the cost of soup is low and nor is is life or death if it do not work. I do not need ten medical researchers to tell me if this common sense will work or not to try it out. However something that cost me allot of effort or risk to try or where the stakes are very high I need more proof to try it."

'Yes... hmm, wonder if we'd have picked up that fucking lab earlier if we had this tech and had used it to monitor our own 'hood.' she mused, seeing it as an angle to get buy-in from her fellow technomancers - while this was her idea, she was very aware she lacked the engineering and programming skills to make the thing work.

"That is speculation but yes it could be, depending on how well it works with firewalls, wards and the like."
Carlos agreed as the waiter gave Nicole the bill for the meal and accepted payment.

Hmm?' she replied, halfway through lighting a cigarette, then fumbling with her phone to check the time. 'Go on, just like an espresso or something. Think we don't have time to get one back at TimeStop.'

"Ok more for me then"
Carlos said and he sipped his coffee.
"That is nice."
He said with a contented smile.

(OOC: If you read the Tradition books then yes it is clear that the other Traditions do want to help sleepers.)
(OOC 2: Ooops I thought we had had her pay already, fixed now.)
(OOC 3 Not a problem.)

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Chantry Complex]

"I was not aware you had been to our Labyrinth and met our leader."
Snow said raising an eyebrow.
"And yeah if the goal was to take out the Union then take out the Syndicate but that do not benefit us, first of ass a two sided war would be much more dangerous for us and also the soulless materialism of the Union benefit out goals, the Progenitors though are dicks so they have to go."

"See this is interesting. Each Faction of the Technocracy has a unique flavor of evil that seeps in to the lives of all mages. And which one affects us most depends on so many factors." Serge mused, "And yeah. Taking down the sources of power in order to weaken the power of the whole is a pretty tried and true method."

Julianna said.
"Snow this is basic interrogation methods, be friendly and engage with the prisoner or try to say something that they want to refute, all of this they can learn something from, your best bet is to say nothing or just repeat your name or a simple phrase like I have nothing to say to each question."
Snow sigh and replied.
"I know I know, but there is nothing after this right, a trial and then...I guess talking just help keep my mind of it."
Julianna nodded.
"I know and I am afraid as well but keep your mouth shut or our sacrifice will be for nothing."

He shrugged, "Perhaps not your Gilledian, but Jodi is a known nuisance. I shall allow that she does impress to some extent, chasing a Star Trek-esque shuttlecraft on foot through the Umbra, but it seems she lacked the fortitude to maintain the pursuit. Sloppy, sloppy..."

"I really have nothing to say to that."
Snow said glancing over at Julianna.

"Yeah! It was on foot! How'd she even do that!" Serge exclaimed as he walked to his Cabal Leader and handed him a note.

On the note it read "We seem to have committed the terrible interrogation sin of keeping them all together. Can we fix it or is it too late?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

"See this is interesting. Each Faction of the Technocracy has a unique flavor of evil that seeps in to the lives of all mages. And which one affects us most depends on so many factors." Serge mused, "And yeah. Taking down the sources of power in order to weaken the power of the whole is a pretty tried and true method."

"I would not say evil, in fact evil is a useless word, no one think of their actions as evil."
Snow said.
"But their goals are opposite of what the Verbena wish and each of the Conventions have their own way they want to freeze reality and make it into a neat and ordered place with no magic or wonder and we can not have that."

"Yeah! It was on foot! How'd she even do that!" Serge exclaimed as he walked to his Cabal Leader and handed him a note.

On the note it read "We seem to have committed the terrible interrogation sin of keeping them all together. Can we fix it or is it too late?"

"Speed is relative in the Umbra."
Snow replied softly.
"If you are good at moving around the Umbra you can match speed with a ship, but it is dangerous as you will have no protection against the big things out there who want to eat you.

[Warpmind]

[Chantry Complex]

"There is nothing that can be done for this world it is far beyond help."
Snow said sadly.
"The only way forward is to burn it and start fresh."

Colin shrugged, "Yes, well, that's if you assume the Second Law of Thermodynamics is absolute... reducing Entropy in the world is impossible. But, we are Mages; the merely impossible just takes a little more time and effort. Regular miracles, we do before lunch."

"See this is interesting. Each Faction of the Technocracy has a unique flavor of evil that seeps in to the lives of all mages. And which one affects us most depends on so many factors." Serge mused, "And yeah. Taking down the sources of power in order to weaken the power of the whole is a pretty tried and true method."

"I would not say evil, in fact evil is a useless word, no one think of their actions as evil."
Snow said.
"But their goals are opposite of what the Verbena wish and each of the Conventions have their own way they want to freeze reality and make it into a neat and ordered place with no magic or wonder and we can not have that."

He smiled thinly, "No-one thinks of themselves as evil, but every now and then, someone looks at the skull on their hat and ask, 'Hans, are we the baddies?' But I will allow, not all Technocrats are evil, even if they have their fair share of monsters among their ranks."

Julianna said.
"Snow this is basic interrogation methods, be friendly and engage with the prisoner or try to say something that they want to refute, all of this they can learn something from, your best bet is to say nothing or just repeat your name or a simple phrase like I have nothing to say to each question."
Snow sigh and replied.
"I know I know, but there is nothing after this right, a trial and then...I guess talking just help keep my mind of it."
Julianna nodded.
"I know and I am afraid as well but keep your mouth shut or our sacrifice will be for nothing."

He nodded, "That is at least partly correct, it is a basic interrogative technique... it does neglect the point of how talking willingly will at the very least diminish, if not outright negate the chance of being tortured before the end... there are, unfortunately, some individuals more enthusiastic than intelligent and empathic in the Security Office when it comes to torture... I don't approve of the practice whatsoever, personally."

"I really have nothing to say to that."
Snow said glancing over at Julianna.

"Yeah! It was on foot! How'd she even do that!" Serge exclaimed as he walked to his Cabal Leader and handed him a note.

On the note it read "We seem to have committed the terrible interrogation sin of keeping them all together. Can we fix it or is it too late?"

"Speed is relative in the Umbra."
Snow replied softly.
"If you are good at moving around the Umbra you can match speed with a ship, but it is dangerous as you will have no protection against the big things out there who want to eat you.

He smiled wryly, "Running around on foot also makes you more vulnerable to ship-mounted weapons. Believe me, being on the receiving end of modern rocketry stings."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

Colin shrugged, "Yes, well, that's if you assume the Second Law of Thermodynamics is absolute... reducing Entropy in the world is impossible. But, we are Mages; the merely impossible just takes a little more time and effort. Regular miracles, we do before lunch."

"As you say Mr Wainwright nothing is impossible however it is not worth it. At some point when looking at a ripped up, soiled pair of pants you have to think ok time to just burn these and get a new pair even if you could potentially wash and mend them possibly they are just to far gone to be worth it."
Snow replied.

He smiled thinly, "No-one thinks of themselves as evil, but every now and then, someone looks at the skull on their hat and ask, 'Hans, are we the baddies?' But I will allow, not all Technocrats are evil, even if they have their fair share of monsters among their ranks."

"Good and evil are illusions, words invented to put simple spins on complex ideas where someone can be completely sure they are in the right for the other party is "evil" but it is more complex than that. A better thing to ask oneself is are our goal really worth it, and are we causing more harm than good."
Snow replied.
"And before you ask Mr Wainwright yes I believe our own cause is just and for the best even if it do harm."

He nodded, "That is at least partly correct, it is a basic interrogative technique... it does neglect the point of how talking willingly will at the very least diminish, if not outright negate the chance of being tortured before the end... there are, unfortunately, some individuals more enthusiastic than intelligent and empathic in the Security Office when it comes to torture... I don't approve of the practice whatsoever, personally."

"You understand our language?"
Snow asked looking surprised, all three of the Nephandi did.
"Ah off course you are the Shard Cluster I have heard about some of those shards must be Fallen."
She said nodding to herself.
"Fascinating, how do that work? Regardless and do forgive my sarcasm but me and my team have been willing to risk Gilgul for our convictions do you really think the threat of pain is going to make us just toss all of that away?"
She asked.
"Not that I want to be tortured or can claim not to be afraid however I have been through the Caul I doubt even your most enthusiastic interrogators can do anything that will make me betray what I am giving my Avatar to achieve."

He smiled wryly, "Running around on foot also makes you more vulnerable to ship-mounted weapons. Believe me, being on the receiving end of modern rocketry stings."

"Ohh is that what happened? I thought it was a fireball."
Snow said with a shrug that said she had seen worse.
"But yeah it is safer to travel in an Umbra ship but many still go on foot."

[Warpmind]

[Chantry Complex]

"As you say Mr Wainwright nothing is impossible however it is not worth it. At some point when looking at a ripped up, soiled pair of pants you have to think ok time to just burn these and get a new pair even if you could potentially wash and mend them possibly they are just to far gone to be worth it."
Snow replied.

Colin nodded, "True, at some point everything becomes unsalvageable... but I still believe the world is both the baby and the bathwater. And I would prefer to not throw the baby out."

"Good and evil are illusions, words invented to put simple spins on complex ideas where someone can be completely sure they are in the right for the other party is "evil" but it is more complex than that. A better thing to ask oneself is are our goal really worth it, and are we causing more harm than good."
Snow replied.
"And before you ask Mr Wainwright yes I believe our own cause is just and for the best even if it do harm."

He nodded, "I'm not convinced Good and Evil are illusions; an often oversimplified shorthand, absolutely, and often misused, and there are a lot of shades of grey rather than a simple black-and-white binary, but... are you really so sure all the deaths are worth it? So much potential snuffed out prematurely, instead of allowing it to reach for fruition? Even the Fallen grow and develop their own potentials, is it truly fair to simply cut off the potential growth of people who have yet to bloom, or who perhaps haven't grown in the direction you had expected?"

"You understand our language?"
Snow asked looking surprised, all three of the Nephandi did.
"Ah off course you are the Shard Cluster I have heard about some of those shards must be Fallen."
She said nodding to herself.
"Fascinating, how do that work? Regardless and do forgive my sarcasm but me and my team have been willing to risk Gilgul for our convictions do you really think the threat of pain is going to make us just toss all of that away?"
She asked.
"Not that I want to be tortured or can claim not to be afraid however I have been through the Caul I doubt even your most enthusiastic interrogators can do anything that will make me betray what I am giving my Avatar to achieve."

He smiled thinly, "A very good guess. It is like having a large advisory council to help guide me... and yes, some of those shards have been taken off the Black Spiral, giving me some unique... insights. As for the Caul, yes, I've been there, done that; didn't have the time for the Spirit Masters to take it down the usual way. But I do have the means to forcibly bring you back to it, in a manner of speaking... it is an extreme thing to re-experience. I don't approve of it as a torture tool, though, but it is an effective method of testing someone for a Fallen Avatar, or for disabling a Fallen adversary. There are some interrogators with access to that tool, however, and they can be rather less restrained..."

"Ohh is that what happened? I thought it was a fireball."
Snow said with a shrug that said she had seen worse.
"But yeah it is safer to travel in an Umbra ship but many still go on foot."

He nodded, "Well, it rather was a fireball, just one created by science rather than magic. The end result was still the same..."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

Colin nodded, "True, at some point everything becomes unsalvageable... but I still believe the world is both the baby and the bathwater. And I would prefer to not throw the baby out."

"If this would could be better it would have been better already there have been many thousands of years since we first got human beings on this planet, no, this world is a prison and it is time to destroy it and be free."
Snow replied simply.

He nodded, "I'm not convinced Good and Evil are illusions; an often oversimplified shorthand, absolutely, and often misused, and there are a lot of shades of grey rather than a simple black-and-white binary, but... are you really so sure all the deaths are worth it? So much potential snuffed out prematurely, instead of allowing it to reach for fruition? Even the Fallen grow and develop their own potentials, is it truly fair to simply cut off the potential growth of people who have yet to bloom, or who perhaps haven't grown in the direction you had expected?"

"Grow and develop to what? More of the rat race, more of a broken reality that slowly leek out every bit of meaning? This is a hell but it is brightly painted so everyone think it is heaven. Now this world have played it's part and ultimately it's destruction is nothing but a blessing."
Snow replied.

He smiled thinly, "A very good guess. It is like having a large advisory council to help guide me... and yes, some of those shards have been taken off the Black Spiral, giving me some unique... insights.

"Interesting...are they all sentient?"
Snow wanted to know.

As for the Caul, yes, I've been there, done that; didn't have the time for the Spirit Masters to take it down the usual way.

"I take it the shards are sharp then? Well now that is most unfortunate, though the way I understand it those Labyrinths in question would not need their Cauls anymore as they are pretty destroyed and leveled with the ground at the moment."
The young Verbena Barabbi replied raising an eyebrow and the two others shuddered.

But I do have the means to forcibly bring you back to it, in a manner of speaking... it is an extreme thing to re-experience. I don't approve of it as a torture tool, though, but it is an effective method of testing someone for a Fallen Avatar, or for disabling a Fallen adversary. There are some interrogators with access to that tool, however, and they can be rather less restrained..."

"And that would be terrible, but not as terrible as loosing my Avatar. When someone is willing to risk their soul what make you think any threat will be enough to make them betray that. I am not going to let the destruction of my Avatar be for nothing."
Snow replied angrily.

He nodded, "Well, it rather was a fireball, just one created by science rather than magic. The end result was still the same..."

"Some would say modern weaponry are just hedge magic that have become so commonplace everyone can use it."
Snow replied with a shrug.
"In either case seam like it was nasty you was lucky to survive."

[Warpmind]

[Chantry Complex]

"If this would could be better it would have been better already there have been many thousands of years since we first got human beings on this planet, no, this world is a prison and it is time to destroy it and be free."
Snow replied simply.

Colin shook his head, "I disagree with that assessment - the world is very much what we make of it; it's more of a kindergarten where we learn to eventually grow out of it."

"Grow and develop to what? More of the rat race, more of a broken reality that slowly leek out every bit of meaning? This is a hell but it is brightly painted so everyone think it is heaven. Now this world have played it's part and ultimately it's destruction is nothing but a blessing."
Snow replied.

He smiled thinly, "Grow into better people... admittedly, your lot is making that part a lot harder than it needs to be. The world's no Heaven, but it's no Hell either - it's entirely what we make of it."

"Interesting...are they all sentient?"
Snow wanted to know.

He shrugged, "I haven't found one that isn't yet. But, absence of evidence, and all that."

"I take it the shards are sharp then? Well now that is most unfortunate, though the way I understand it those Labyrinths in question would not need their Cauls anymore as they are pretty destroyed and leveled with the ground at the moment."
The young Verbena Barabbi replied raising an eyebrow and the two others shuddered.

He grinned, "Ask the Italians how sharp they are. And Lisa Larson's Labyrinth is still flying free, evidenced by how Jodi tried to capture it. Pity that failed. And, I've even acquired a Labyrinth of my own, he's such a big sweetie. The Caul had to go, of course."

"And that would be terrible, but not as terrible as loosing my Avatar. When someone is willing to risk their soul what make you think any threat will be enough to make them betray that. I am not going to let the destruction of my Avatar be for nothing."
Snow replied angrily.

He shook his head, "I'm not making a threat, just pointing out that someone else might have the means and will to do it to you. Entirely out of my hands."

"Some would say modern weaponry are just hedge magic that have become so commonplace everyone can use it."
Snow replied with a shrug.
"In either case seam like it was nasty you was lucky to survive."

He nodded, "Well, it's not a wrong way to look at it. And yes, I was. Very lucky. And I had good help."

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Chantry Complex]

Now that Colin was having a proper Conversation with Snow, Serge didn't want to interrupt in case he broke the flow and allowed Snow to bring her guard back up.

Though he was having trouble figuring what more he could, he decided to go back to Thomas and continue his chat with him. He doubted he could get him to say anything more but he decided it wouldn't hurt to try.

"So Infernalist huh? That's fancy. Don't know much about them. Do you have any favorite Infernal Being or do you just draw power from whoever gives it?" he asked.

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Concordia]

Anja's Post:

'Yet a doctor would say similar, though would say it needed to be a decent soup.' Nicole retorted, labourously counting out the unfamiliar coinage to pay for the lunch. 'There ain't nothing wrong with looking at a "common sense" answer to see if it actually stands up logically or is just a load of BS.'

Anja's Post:

'Fine, I'll order my own then.' giving a little pout and moving up to the external serving hatch of the coffee-shop.
'
[Well, define 'help'. If 'trying/desiring to Awaken others' counts as helping, then yes. If 'trying to improve their immediate lives', then no. Nick personally doesn't count the former as 'helping', more simple 'recruitment'.]

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chantry Complex]

Colin shook his head, "I disagree with that assessment - the world is very much what we make of it; it's more of a kindergarten where we learn to eventually grow out of it."

"It is more of an abusive kindergarten which destroy souls who escape it and leave battered, broken things behind, and it have been that way for thousands of years and I see no signs this will ever change."
Snow replied firmly.

He smiled thinly, "Grow into better people... admittedly, your lot is making that part a lot harder than it needs to be. The world's no Heaven, but it's no Hell either - it's entirely what we make of it."

"Really and how many grow into actually better people?"
Snow challenged.

He shrugged, "I haven't found one that isn't yet. But, absence of evidence, and all that."

"That is interesting, can you talk to them all? How do that work? How do you know who's advice to listen to?"
The young Nephanda asked.

He grinned, "Ask the Italians how sharp they are. And Lisa Larson's Labyrinth is still flying free, evidenced by how Jodi tried to capture it. Pity that failed. And, I've even acquired a Labyrinth of my own, he's such a big sweetie. The Caul had to go, of course."

"It seam you have done allot of damage."
Snow commented with a frown.

He shook his head, "I'm not making a threat, just pointing out that someone else might have the means and will to do it to you. Entirely out of my hands."

"Yeah no that is a threat man let us show one another enough respect to admit that at least. You are saying if you do not talk these horrible things will happen to you to not call that a threat is bullshit."
Snow replied sharply.
"Your intimidation tactics will not work though."

He nodded, "Well, it's not a wrong way to look at it. And yes, I was. Very lucky. And I had good help."

"I am glad you recovered then Mr Wainwright though given the trouble you have given my Faction perhaps it would have been better for us if that fireball had been a bit stronger eh, no offense."
Snow said with a bit of a wry smile.

Now that Colin was having a proper Conversation with Snow, Serge didn't want to interrupt in case he broke the flow and allowed Snow to bring her guard back up.

Though he was having trouble figuring what more he could, he decided to go back to Thomas and continue his chat with him. He doubted he could get him to say anything more but he decided it wouldn't hurt to try.

"So Infernalist huh? That's fancy. Don't know much about them. Do you have any favorite Infernal Being or do you just draw power from whoever gives it?" he asked.

Thomas just glared at Serge and Snow broke in.
"No one is going to tell you that Kid just like no one will tell you their true names, that is just handing someone else power over you.

[Concordia]

'Yet a doctor would say similar, though would say it needed to be a decent soup.' Nicole retorted, labourously counting out the unfamiliar coinage to pay for the lunch. 'There ain't nothing wrong with looking at a "common sense" answer to see if it actually stands up logically or is just a load of BS.'

"My point is this, if something do not cost much in effort or money do it matter? Is it then worth it to have a long study to determine just how effective it is. I lock my door even if I live in a low crime area, it literary takes 10 seconds and have no downsides I do not need a long study showing me how likely I am to be robbed if I lock my door or if I do not lock my door. So back to the original point I know of no one who let fear of supernaturals affect what they do in life, though some will look a bit extra to see someone is breathing and such, that cost nothing so spending allot fo time and resources to find out how necessary it is seam like a waste to me. It is like I do not always check to find out how likely it is to rain before putting an umbrella in my bag, I already own the umbrella it cost me nothing to just bring it along."
Carlos said as you counted out the coins to pay for the meal.

'Fine, I'll order my own then.' giving a little pout and moving up to the external serving hatch of the coffee-shop.

"Oh I thought you did not want any...sorry about that...I can order if you want."
Carlos said blancing cups as he hurried after Nicole. The person in the coffee shop was a sauroid, clearly an escapee, a snake like being the Progenitors grew as guards for their facilities. The Sauroid looked like a humanoid snake and she was wearing a Tshirt with the coffee shop name and jeans.
"What can I getssss you?"
She hissed and flicked her forked tongue over her nose.

(OOC: Healing for the Verbena and the Celestical Chrorus for example, stopping dangerous elements that would harm pepole and the Cycle for the Euthanatos, Akashics are often guardians and protectors, Dreamspeakers serve their communities as advisors, healers and spiritual leaders the list go on.)

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Concordia]

Anja's Post:

'I have. Been told that travelling between places was very dangerous 'cos of em.' Nicole retorted, halting for a moment to look at one of the larger coins critically for a moment. 'That belief does have downsides. It's like the critter version of the old "stranger danger" every woman has poured down her neck - nighttime bad, being alone bad, dark bushes very bad, non-muumuu clothes tempting fate and if you have a drink or two you're simply asking for it. A lifetime of fear holding you prisoner.' sounding more sad than angry for this.

[Question; doesn't the snake-woman trigger Nick's 'inner rat' like the Bastet and Jareth does?]

[I agree, that all Traditions have members who do help the Sleepers. However, I never read (for example) in any OoH book that trainees were taught they all had an obligation to help the Sleepers. Though it's quite possible that some get this lesson from an individual mentor who personally believes it. I'd peg the Euthanatos and the Chorus as the mystic Traditions with the strongest 'Sleeper obligation' baked-in to their teachings.]

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Concordia]

'I have. Been told that travelling between places was very dangerous 'cos of em.' Nicole retorted, halting for a moment to look at one of the larger coins critically for a moment. 'That belief does have downsides. It's like the critter version of the old "stranger danger" every woman has poured down her neck - nighttime bad, being alone bad, dark bushes very bad, non-muumuu clothes tempting fate and if you have a drink or two you're simply asking for it. A lifetime of fear holding you prisoner.' sounding more sad than angry for this.

"I agree if a fear of something keep you from doing something and livign your life then spending the resources to find out if said fear is warrented is a wise investment, I have never claimed otherwise. I have just not seen this among mages if anythign I have seen the oposite with pepole being very cocky when it comes to the other Awakened since they use linear powers and not Awakned magick."
Carlos replied.

(OOC: That is a fair poitn she probably do.)
(OOC 2: Again the things I mention are part of the basic creed of the Traditiosn in question however if you want to put the Sons of Ether on some pedestal of alturism have at it, that is not how I read the material and is not how I run it.)

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Concordia]

Anja's Post:

'Eh, this woman just really got on my twins, like. And almost everyone knows a story about the friend of a friend who went on a trip to, say Colorado and never came back or seimilar horror story.'

Anja's Post:

The feeling reached Nicole before her brain computed what it was seeing; the desire to run away and hide somewhere dark. A moment of clear fear crossing her face when brain put instinct and the visual together, which receeded somewhat when she reasoned is was unlikely they'd actually go through attempting to eat her.

'Erm... yes. Coffee.' looking for a menu or something to cover up her shaken composure.

[Nah; my read is that technomancers 'talk the talk' about doing it to help Sleepers but fail on the follow-through. The Union has become more about their own selfish desires and preserving power, the Adepts have half given up on the physical world and the Etherites have gone off on their ethership-robot-deathray adventures which helps nobody. I don't see this conflicting with your 'everyone sucks about the same' view as the different reasoning leads to the same level of sucky-ness.]

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Concordia]

Eh, this woman just really got on my twins, like. And almost everyone knows a story about the friend of a friend who went on a trip to, say Colorado and never came back or seimilar horror story.'

"Basically all I am saying is that I see nothing wrong with beign a bit careful about supernaturals if it do not hinder your day to day life and that in my experience for by far the most that is what we are talking about and then it seams to be a strange use of resources to do a massive study to see if that care is warranted. I am not saying one should do things that negatively affect your life on the word of someone's cousin's brother who might have seen something."
Carlos replied.

The feeling reached Nicole before her brain computed what it was seeing; the desire to run away and hide somewhere dark. A moment of clear fear crossing her face when brain put instinct and the visual together, which receeded somewhat when she reasoned is was unlikely they'd actually go through attempting to eat her.

'Erm... yes. Coffee.' looking for a menu or something to cover up her shaken composure.

The strange snake like woman flicked her tongue again and looked at you for some time but all she said was.
"Will that be black coffeesss?"

(OOC: Very well.)

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Concordia]

Anja's Post:

'Yet you're a total homebody who rarely leaves D's limits unless on a job. You don't really give a damn about the answer 'cos the question don't affect you.' having finished counting out the bill, then gave a frown. 'Now for Mr Pink's debate. Fuck, I don't know what servers earn here.' showing her habitual concern towards the working stiffs, squinting at the bill, trying to see if the tip had been included. 'Fuck, my eyes are worse. Nothing like spending an afternoon sixteen again to see how bad they've got.'

Anja's Post:

'Erm... espresso, double. Please.' she replied weakly, fighting down the internal vision of them mentally measure her up to eat later.

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