I will post when I can.

Right now I never want to play RPG games again ever, perhaps I will calm down but right now I just yeah. I dared to speak against the politically correct and everyone in one of the biggest RPG groups in Norway on facebook turn against me. I am being treated as if I am Hitler. So what did I do which was so horrible, so unacceptable?

There was a thread about discrimination of female players. One player complained that she was discriminated against because she played in a mostly male group and when they wanted to use diplomacy and she wanted to as she said, run in and poke the dragon for some fun, the others spoke over her and stopped her.

I suggested that this was not discrimination but a playing style and communication issue. She later said oh but men always spoke over women and she should not have to address the issue for it was discrimination that she had to talk to the GM about it, after all he might not believe her and it might be uncomfortable so the others should I don't know read her mind and stop being assertive. Also I was part of the problem for suggesting she do anything and not just say off course you are being discriminated against.

Later I wrote a frustrated post on my wall, not mentioning the group name or her name but basically saying I hate this bullshit, that women can not have the cake and eat it to, either we are helpless little blossoms that have to be protected from everything that could be slightly uncomfortable or we can have equality, we can not have both. And yes men and women often have a different communication style but the way to get around that is communication not for one party to sit and cry about discrimination. Someone saying no do not go and poke the dragon when the rest of the group want to use diplomacy is not discriminating against anyone.

So no I will be rapported, probably thrown out of Rollespill info and everyone turn against me on facebook. It is just the last straw with the PC regime demanding compelte obedience and if anyone put a toe out of line they are to be shunned and ridiculed. I just hate to see what this do to the RPG community and I am just so sad, depressed and hopeless. This regime destroy every setting I love and attack me when I suggest that well the group shutting down silly antics when they want serious play is not discrimination but a playstile and communication error which I do not think is unresonable. I mean you can agree with me or not but this reaction is extreme. I will try to post when I have calmed down but right now I feel like why even care about any fandom, any game or anything at all the SJWs will just destroy it anyway.

I guess I feel better after a night of sleep but seriously I hate that if you even disagree with the party line one percent you will be hounded, called a horrible person and treated like if you was Hitler.

Your original reply actually shows your depth as a GM; to not automatically assume you know the reason(s) for the issue. And with my own management hat on for a moment, the thing would hinge on a) if they've done this to her before, b) is it particular person(s) and c) do they do it to other guys too. So in this case, it's all about 'more details, please'.

The issue in this case is a variant of the old 'golden hammer syndrome' that you have a (small) group of hardcore feminists (some with clear misandrist tendencies) who end up seeing every problem being down to male-whatever. Thus, as this was a problem and a possesor of a XY chromosome was involved somehow, therefore it must be 'male oppression' or whatever.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. My bet is that the majority of people in the group either agree with you, don't care or know 'how to disagree' if they don't agree (so I hardly think it's 'everyone', or even 'most' were against you). Social media of the FB-style has actually been proven by scientists to have exaggerated levels of 'chilling effect' on people - and social confomity is a bitch. If they do try to kick up some form of 'official' stink... well, a) a lot of them are simple blowhards, b) most mods would tell them variants of 'go to hell' and well c) if they do do something to you, I suspect you'd have noticed lots of others vanishing by now (some with particulary acidic farewell messages). I would also not worry about such people 'ruining RPGs'. I don't think they play RPGs much, and people who make them know they're such a small demographic their influence is little to nil.

Anyway, I did come here to report I'm finally home after a stupidly long and stressful journey back. I'll clear the posting blacklog as soon as.

From what I managed to sort out since her explanation was rather rambly. She play in a group who likes to be focused and tactical, always sending in the best character for the job, preferring to use negotiations rather than combat and she like to send her character in to do random shit just to stir things up and when she try to do that the others speak over her and stop her.

When she said she thought this was a problem her players said well if there is something you really want speak louder as well.

This woman then think this is all due to her being a woman while I more think this is a problem of A she and her gaming group not being on the same page as to gaming style and miss communication in the group. Everyone shout and the one who shout the loudest get their way. I can see that is a problem but I do not think the problem is sexism.

In addition she found it to be a huge problem that I and others of the facebook advice her to talk with her group for it was horrible women had to take up such things for that did not feel safe, the men should just immediately know what she wanted by I don't know reading her mind or something.

When I told her this was pretty unreasonable and also women can nto ahve it both ways we can not be both protected from having to do anything that might be slightly uncomfortable, for she confirmed that there not that she felt unsafe that her group would hurt her but they might dismiss her concern or it might get a bit akward and that would be unsafe. We can not both be dainty flowers that can not handle anything uncomfortable and also be equals to men,

At this this woman had a tantrum that I at one point had used the word girl about her. When I tried to explain this had nothing to do with infantilizing women, that my 70 year old mother say she is having a girl's night out with her friends she accused my mother of acting like a child, then she send her husband to attack me when she blocked me, because the I am a woman not a girl hear me roar feminist needed to hide behind her husband when someone disagreed with her online. This husband called me a unpleasant person, a terrible persona and started lecturing me. When I told him to fuck of, I did not call him names I did ntohing other than tell him to fuck of he accused me of abusing him verbally, because calling me a horrible person and telling me how horrible I am that is ok, me telling himt to fuck off and leave him alone that off course was verbal abuse.

You are right, most actually expressed agreement with me, but ti is the extreme judgement of those that did not which get to me, and how very few had the courage to speak up once this begun because to speak up against those who are well extreme left is not really right either because I know hardcore Communists who are not this, but let us call them the social justice berserkers, is to draw their wrath upon themselves.

It should be noted I never in the thread said discrimination against girls in the RPG community do not happen, it do and many experience it, but that other explanations was likely in this case.

I mean it is like when I was out shopping with another fat girl and a group of thin girls stood some distance away and they looked at us for a moment before continuing their conversation. My companion went into this whole rant on how they where probably making fun of how fat we where and I told her there is no indication of that, most likely they just heard us coming and glanced up to see who we was before continuing minding their own business. Even if discrimination happens, not every thing one encounter is due to discrimination.

Thank you for your post it helped. I just felt so frustrated and ganged up on yesterday for just disagreeing on a small point.

That's the problem, then.

'Safe' (in the assumed usage) was not invented to be a constantly-present fuzzy blanket, meaning that you can never be contradicted, called out or otherwise made to feel 'uncomfortable'. It was invented to allow minority/marginalised groups to be able to talk freely without fear of retribution or condemnation in particular spaces, thus 'safe space'. For example, an AA meeting is one. Or a sexual abuse support group. What's more, there is no universal 'safe space' either - you don't go to a drugs group to talk about the stresses of being gay, for example.

So, unless this gaming group was designed to be a safe space for people with social/communication issues, I would say this person's expectations are excessive. Now, I would say that every group like this should aim to be 'friendly' and make reasonable adjustments to make it so (RPG game forums etc are filled with such 'GM tales') but no, it's not a safe space.

Anyway, without getting too dense and political, there's a wide difference between 'social progressivism' and let's call it left-wing economics. In fact, a lot of socialists etc have little truck with what is loosely termed 'identity politics'.

But to end, I shall share a pearl of wisdom from The Simpsons; 'Some [people] act badly because they've had a hard life, or have been mistreated. But... some of them are just jerks.'

I think that is the problem with some, they expect to never, ever have to do something that have a potential to be uncomfortable, and that everyone else will cater to them so they never have to be uncomfortable.

I run a D&D game where all of the players have Aspergers and I am very careful to make room for shyer players, I am far from perfect at it, but we all try to be sensitive to one another issues. But each group have a different dynamic. It sound like the gaming group this woman is part of is more based on screaming the loudest, something I would find really uncomfortable to, but I would not assume it is because I am female but rather because I just would not do well in such a setting. I have left gaming groups because their style or just the mood around the table did not fit me.

I completely get that this woman do not fit well in the gaming group she is in and that they are nto very sensitive to her needs, my only protest was that I do not think it is due to her lacking a Y chromosome, they are just insensitive loudmouths. Also it should be mentioned that they generally talked over her and stopped her when she wanted to do things like poke the dragon the others where negotiating with since she wanted more combat, and that is sort of a dick move on her part as well. In short the problem is she do not fit well in this group but nothing of this lend evidence to it being because she si a woman.

Yeah I mean I consider myself to be on the left by American standards. I want there to be a good, reasonable lower living standard and those who have the most should pay the most taxes to ensure that. I have also always considered myself tolerant. I think everyone should be free to do whatever the hell they want to do as long as it do not harm anyone and I will treat everyone based on their words and actions not their skin color, gender, gender identity and so on and so on. But for the identity politics crowd that just is not enough, one have to put minorities on pedestals and any disagreement means you are a right wing extremist. I was told I was racist for using Chakra stones once and cruel because I buy locally grown sage to cleanse my altar space.

The tendency of these social justice berserkers to take everything as a serious attack is also frustrating. So the woman in question sent her hubby to berate me on my wall and annoyed I told him to fuck off and leave me alone. At this point he accused me of verbally abusing him. Seriously telling someone who come into your space to fuck off and leave you alone is not verbally abuse. Sure I could have been more diplomatic but I did nto call him names, I did not seek him out all I did was use a angry way to tell him to just go away. When everything is said to be abuse then the word loose it's meaning. He went on and on about how he was going to rapport me to facebook for saying fuck off to him for I was not free to abuse people on my wall. The problem with the identity politics crowd is that they think anyone not treating them with silk gloves and cater to their every need are abusing and discriminating them.

I had this problem for years, Great One but I finally worked out the answer and shall share it with you now.

The issue is that we're Europeans.

The Euro left generally accepts the 'class system' exists. It also knows the root of such system is economics. Therefore, tackle economics and much of the other issues fall into place (yes, Marxism). This means when say, a British socialist notices that a heavy % of people at the bottom are non-white, they'll point out generations of being very poor has kept them stuck there due to lack of 'capital'.

The American left don't think the class system exists - they believe their country is a meritocracy. Therefore, they have to find other reasons for the clear unequal social pyramid. So they look at the example above and conclude that racism is the cause (as admitting the class system is the greatest heresy). Therefore, if only individuals and organisations could be 'less racist' everything would go great.

Truth is, both sides don't get on at all. In short, a Euro in a group of American 'lefties' is about as welcome as an Etherite at a Technocratic symposium - they're the bitch who's sitting in the audience intelligently heckling the speakers and keeps on asking the questions which the Unionists don't really have a reply to.

And because Americans overwhelmingly dominate English-language social media, it's the latter's view which dominates. And now it infects other lands, often in places where the origin for it doesn't really fit.

And to go back towards IC again, is part of Nicole's 'thing'. She is a hardcore version of the Euro edition in America. Naturally, she is not popular at all. (Is also why she's a lot more motivated about sorting out the economic exploitation/barriers within the Tradition, and not really caring about name-changes etc).

Yeah there can be something to that. This American way of lookign at thisngs are bleeding into Europe though, so then we get a high school teacher accused of racism for expressing joy that spring was near and saying now we are moving towards lighter times, because that indicated light was better than darkness. Yes to human eyes it is that do not mean she is saying light skin tones are better than dark ones, saying hey I like to go outside and see the sun more than be in darkness is not racist but to some of these social justice berserkers everything is racist.

But yeah I get that and really I agree there are discrimination due to old beliefs and fear of things that is different but allot of the crap do boil down to economics.

At least you've got a language barrier to protect you... I don't. And it's a prime example of cultural imperalism; the rigid application of one point of view in all situations, believing that said view is a universially correct one even when you have no idea of 'local conditions' (like knowing that Oslo gets only 7 hours of 'daytime' in Jan and of that on average only 14% shall involve you having actual sunlight). They may not see it, but these types have a hell of a lot in common with the missionaries from the 19th Century. It's why socialists often end up mocking them as 'Middle Class Messiahs' (or in Nick's case, actually openly loathing them).