Welcome Meridian Porter

Definitely going to swap out for Youthful Appearence, yeah.

I'll think on Contacts and see what I can come up with.

I have a rote in mind for dampening her aura and then another just diverting attention away from her in general. I'm imagining that electronic devices would pick up the fact she doesn't cast a shadow or reflection, if the camera picks her up. I'm imagining that at some point, someone is going to notice and find it a bit weird.

Undocumented would fit really well.

The only thing I'd say about Scrounging is that it's very... Specific vs Search which Meridian currently has.

It was a suggestion that Nicole could have met her. We are jsut tossing around ideas here.

For the most part looking like your character is still a teenager means she will be carded to get into bars and buy beer but some might take her less seriously if she looks really young.

Well, most Americans don't take teenagers seriously either. So you might put in a penalty in persuasion rolls with most adults who don't know her personally.

From the best of my knowledge, all Mage references to No Reflection predated digital cameras etc. However, I know for a fact V20 has covered this issue [in respect for Lasombra, of which it is their clan flaw]. I'll go and see what they said on the topic and report back here. I do remember that by the stage of Arcane 2 personal images on cameras etc start becoming increasingly useless for ID purposes and if she's applying an Entropy-based 'not your problem' field or similar it might be that she keeps on 'lucking out' on the survellience issues [faulty camera/bad lighting/defective hard drive/etc].

I believe 'Undocumented' [or something similar to] is in Hunter's Player's Guide. I'll dig that up too and report here.

Yeah, Search/Scrounge has decent overlap, considered the former before taking the latter. What kinds of things do you visualise her 'finding'?

In terms of what I'd be looking to find (with Correspondence in mind), probably small objects, keys, bits of clues, secrets, passageways, squeeze spots. Essentially using it as a focused, active surveying skill as opposed to a more passive Alertness or the more process driven Investigation.

Aiming to cover Meridian's different bases when it comes to getting a closer look at things.

So, more a people/places kind of thing, rather than focused on items?

Have you consdiered making her a bit of a teenage grifter? Part of her Stealth skills might actually be not 'being invisible' but 'being other people'.

A part of me feels like that would be more a social-facey character than the fly on the wall that Meridian is currently. I'd be happy to pivot, but I'd probably need to do a deeper overhaul of some stuff.

Well no reflection as a Echo flaw would be different from high Arcane. With the Lasombra flaw, which could also be taken as Echos since the reason why the folklore about vampires not having reflections are the belief they have no souls to reflect, can also apply to mages as some folklore say magic users have sold their souls or just do nto have them, though it is not a common believed weakness.

Echos: You are affected by a underlying Consensus belief about mages which manifest as odd supernatural effects around you. Looking in a mirror you will see nothing. It is really up to you and the severity of the flaw if this also affect cameras.

Arcane: You are forgettable, so pictures taken of you tend to be blury, not to some degree anyone will think is supernatural, it was just a bad picture or you happened to look away right at the moment it was taken. If you want to do your make up you would see yourself in a mirror just fine, but with high Arcane any records of you such as pictures just become fuzzy and people tend to look away, you are not invisible but you are just hard to notice.

Heh, Echoes... I had a Mage in his twenties, and he had a long, lush, white beard, because everyone knows wizards have long, white beards...

Looked really out of place on him...

Yeah or an allergy to salt, not being able to work around religious icons and so on are pretty common, but tropes from fantasy are also part of the Consensus and would be common echos.

- I've looked up the 'No Reflection' flaw. According to V4's 'Lore of the Clans', it's heavily suggested that it does not apply to digital media. However, it then says that Obfuscate does work. And Mage has nothing to say. So... shall I suggest a comprimise - that if Meridian does take this flaw, she does not show on any cameras because she believes she would not and as a complete techno-ignorant she has never heard the argument to why film and digital are different?

But I have another idea here. May I suggest the flaw of VtR's 'hollow' Mekhet - that not only do they have the Lasombra's flaw, but also cannot communicate via phones and their voice never echoes? Couple this with avoiding social media, stealth and a 'don't see me' Entropy field she is doing almost as a reflex, might be able to ditch most or all of the Arcane.

- Have looked up 'Undocumented'. Turns out, I was mistakenly thinking of the flaw 'Illegal Immigrant'. After considering it, wonder whether this needs to be an actual flaw in this case as I suspect one of the Adepts shall provide a new ID for Meridian in relative short order.

- With the 'grifter' idea, it could simply be Meridian's experience that sometimes, to survive you need to 'work' people. In fact, a high Awareness would make her good at reading people [how do I get out of this? What do they desire to hear?] and then a bit higher Subterfuge so she can then deliver them.

Oh, here's a site which has a fair 'rote search' facility; http://rotes.theflamingqiviuts.com/findrotes.php

Yeah, I wasn't necessarily trying to swing it as an advantage, if anything recordings of Meridian without a shadow or reflection would be a really, really dangerous thing, so I'm fine with it either way. On further thought might swap Cast No Reflection/Shadow into a two-point Echoes merit that basically represents her kind of internalised "invisible & ignored population/vagrant" identity, something that just supresses her presence in the world generally so that she "doesn't cast a shadow/leaves no mark on the world" metaphorically more than literally not casting a shadow. Although... also possibly literally!

The only thing I'd say is that this turns a hard crunchy mechanical disadvantage into a more fluffy disadvantage, even if it does fit better. Cast no Shadow/Reflection is unnerving and disadvantages her socially, Echoes is mostly a thing that Mages or other Night-folk will fully comprehend.

I LIKE the not being able to be picked up over a phone and having no echo, that actually really resonates.

I wouldn't really know what to replace the Arcane with, other backgrounds didn't really call to me as much as Arcane did, I'd probably be able to find something though, maybe a familiar friend like a street rat she nurtured.

I went with Blacklisted in the end as it's supposed to be an Anti-Documentation flaw which fits mechanically and thematically with a few misdemeanours to her name.

I'm definitely looking at Meridian in a different way now, I'm going to run with her awareness being more of a prominent thing and give her a bit more interaction with magick before her actual awakening through some natural seer talents. Definitely going to work some more aura-reading and interactions into her rotes.

Rote search is going to be great, I've been going through the Grimoire of Enlightenment for inspirations!

As soon as I get in today I'm going to start writing out her background on her character sheet (and finish it!)

Just a question about rotes, they're nice to have for like, a shorthand so I'm not constantly spellcrafting, but they're not necessarily a real thing in M20 are they?

They *are* a thing, but not something you need to obsess over.

Colin's got a few convenient rotes - little tricks he's done often enough to do them almost effortlessly - and a few spells he's developed for himself that are quite useful, but not yet as rehearsed as to be rote memory.

It is 100 percent irrelevant what the vampire flaw says since this is an Echo and not a vampire flaw, it would be induvidual to the mage having the flaw, so she can really pick how it will work and the end result will determine the point bonus for the flaw.

As for rotes they are effects you have used so many times you get a minus to diff when using them, you can pick a handful of them if you want, they are nice to have but not necessary and do not really have a cost.

- I know it's irrelevant, I merely thought people may be curious to see what a digital-era sourcebook said on the subject, that's all. And V20 was the only one which had it.

- I'll admit, I do have a bit of a personal dislike towards a very high Arcane. If nothing else, it will effectly make it very difficult for NPCs to 'target' her [be it social or plans] etc. If nothing else, it turns an 'antisocial by choice' char to more a mandatory one. If you're only taking that because you don't see any of the other Backgrounds working right now, perhaps Great One [aka Anja] shall allow you to bank them for later use instead?

- I will politely suggest 'Blacklisted' and a high Arcane kind of cancel each other out? I mean, how can a mystery person be blacklisted?

- A sneaky-scouty-spy-thief type would be sufficiently 'different' to Nicole that they'd compliment without overlapping.

- Has a final decision been made on where Meridian's from? I mean, when it comes down to it almost anyone could basically fob Meridian off on Sheelhaven; now I think of it, perhaps the kid did/saw something that they really shouldn't have, and so have to be re-located on the other side of the country? [May mean the 'Blacklisted' is in fact more an 'Enemy', for the former would be shaken off by a city move and new ID, but the latter wouldn't be so easy to ditch.]

- Yeah, no need to worry about Rotes. Esp as this character is a 'young' one which hasn't [I think] had the chance to be educated magickally yet - I mean, it's unlikely at this point she's developed more than 3-4 'tricks'. Nicole, if I remember right started play with five. On an OOC point of view, I find them handy because I've already fleshed out 'how they are done' so I don't have to keep on explaining IC what they're doing.

- I know it's irrelevant, I merely thought people may be curious to see what a digital-era sourcebook said on the subject, that's all. And V20 was the only one which had it.

That makes sense.

I'll admit, I do have a bit of a personal dislike towards a very high Arcane. If nothing else, it will effectly make it very difficult for NPCs to 'target' her [be it social or plans] etc. If nothing else, it turns an 'antisocial by choice' char to more a mandatory one. If you're only taking that because you don't see any of the other Backgrounds working right now, perhaps Great One [aka Anja] shall allow you to bank them for later use instead?

High Arcane is just as much a flaw as it is a boon, look at Jon, a character in the game for the newcomers, and how he is just not remembered, and how he can just not get a cab no matter what he do. Friends forget him, walk into him and so on.

I will politely suggest 'Blacklisted' and a high Arcane kind of cancel each other out? I mean, how can a mystery person be blacklisted?

Very high Arcane will make Blacklisted difficult yes.

Which is why I am a bit negative towards a high Arcane. It shall prove rather difficult from an RP POV if we have a PC which everyone has difficulty remembering, esp as this is a game where the social element is somewhat higher than a D&D style tomb-raid/action game.

Though you didn't answer my implied question; if Meridian can't find any really suitable Backgrounds, would you allow them to basically 'bank' them for spending a little later on?

I would allow Meridian to bank backgrounds that is fine.

At least some discussion will have to be had about Arcane over 3 to make it playable, I will not nix it but discussion would have to be had to find a way to practically work it into the story.

That's actually something about Arcane I hadn't thought about in terms of people I'd be working with regularly, I sort of assumed it wouldn't work like that but there's nothing implying it wouldn't.

I think I would want Meridian to have some Arcane, although in reality 1-3 will be more than enough to get the effect I like. I'll work out how to spend the spare background points.

In terms of Blacklisted & Arcane, I think my line of thought was that Blacklisted would essentially make anything public-facing or official she wanted to do a bit more difficult. ie. Any document she needed signed, any checks she needed to pass. I was also not thinking of Arcane as anything that acted retroactively. I do see what you mean though.

Most of Meridian's stuff is observing and hiding, the rest is bits of intuition, in my mind. I don't know if I'd consider her entirely anti-social, I just see her as someone who prefers to read others than broadcast her own thoughts and feelings. She might have a conversation with someone that is entirely questions from her side.

Enemy or Hunted might be more interesting than Blacklisted, although I would feel a little awkward establishing that in-setting. I'd feel awkward if she overly imposed on any planned arc. Something like Hunted or Enemy would also explicitly bring danger to those around her which feels weird for Meridian in particular. The witch-hunted flaw kind of calls out that this sort of attention will basically make you a pariah.

I'll probably pick 3-4 things about Meridian's Magick that I feel speak to her core concept for rotes.

I'd like Meridian to have had some history with the Chorister Chantry as a kind of foil to her own personality. But I think the main tie in to the group and finding her way to Horizon would just be the possibility that she was a Nephandus and being questioned due to this. A lot of what she does in terms of her missing reflections and her aura altering is really, really suspicious bad-guy trademark. In terms of where she comes from, I'm imagining that she's been in Boston most of her life as a sort of sleeper seer who didn't interact much with normal society, actively avoided people with scary or different auras and then one day just awakened but flew under the radar while she got her bearings.

Did anyone have any thoughts on this bit regarding Cast No Shadow > Echoes? "The only thing I'd say is that this turns a hard crunchy mechanical disadvantage into a more fluffy disadvantage, even if it does fit better. Cast no Shadow/Reflection is unnerving and disadvantages her socially, Echoes is mostly a thing that Mages or other Night-folk will fully comprehend."

I seem to recall setting up a Mage with Echoes that made his shadow suffer a half-second "lag", but a complete lack of shadow/reflection seems like the sort of thing that'll get Hunters or worse on your case pretty damn quickly; there's a distinction between something weird just out the corner of your eye kind of thing, and something explicitly supernatural.

Arcane is something of a two-way street, and fits with the idea of "leaving no marks on the world", in that documents disappear, photos fade, memories become fuzzy... Events might be remembered, but your part of them is not. For good and ill.

Heh, if she's been in Boston most of her life, she might've spent some time living under Tobin Bridge, under the watchful eye of the troll who maintains it.

- The other issues of Blacklisting is that they're actually rather easy to get around in this chronicle. Steelhaven has a Master Virtual Adept who could knock out a 100% authentic fake ID within an hour and the 'city change' would lose the ire of those who knew them personally. What's more, I would argue that it might also collide with 'Youthful Apperance' if the reason for that is that she is a youth. [Bad ID or good, you aren't getting that gun/apartment/credit card!]

- Instead of Arcane, may I suggest the Merit 'Forgettable' instead? It's a two-pointer, from the Hunter's Guide again;

"It's not that you're ugly. It's just that, well, people's eyes tend to slide over you. You're of average height and build, unremarkable looks and run-of-the-mill dress. People have problems remembering your appearance after they meet you, unless you have talked with them for a long time. Certainly, people won't be able to give a useful description of you if they only see you briefly. You must have an appearance of 2 or 3 and a Charisma no higher than 3 to take this merit. If either of those Attributes moves outside it's assigned range during play, you lose this Merit. This Merit applies solely to your physical appearance. You might have a dreadful credit rating, a police file as thick as the phone book and a sexual history that would make a porn star blush, but people on the street just don't remember you."

- I can only speak from personal experience, but from what I can tell is that the Great One doesn't mind individual 'side-arcs' going on and seems to expect a bit of help with them from other PCs and NPCs alike.

- The main issue I forsee with having a Boston PC is that she'd realistically have quite a bit in regards to 'backgroundy' information [ie dots] to well, Boston. Which I suspect would involve more work to, well work. I ask; are you thinking of doing some 'family side-quest' line or something? Because I don't hugely see the appeal otherwise [esp if she did have the 'Blacklisted' flaw... I mean, sweet new ID, and stay in the city they know your bad rep?]

- With the Reflection/Echoes issue, I think appears to be more a question of technical definition than anything else [some mages might think the issue is Paradox-related, for example]. I am more sanguine more about the 'hunter issues' than Warp is, partly due to a) I don't think we are in a hunter-heavy chronicle and b) everything in the draft-Meridian so far points to a PC who is actively avoiding being on the radar.

The Arcane was useful to explain away her not having a list of connections, and it also ate up those free dots so I'm going to have to adjust some stuff. Meridian as a character wasn't really ever a social butterfly even without arcane.

After thought and kinda getting to see more of things and seeing what the group is like currently, I'm
slightly wondering if I should do a sort of dramatic pivot on Meridian into a kind of alternate version of her where she passed through by the Five Sisters Chantry for a little while and becomes something of a Chorister. I'm noticing the group is already pretty heavy at least magick wise where Meridian specialises, so she would only be bringing her particular Practice themes, stealth/perception and her vision into a kitchen full of cooks so to speak.

From what Nicole is saying, I'm wondering if other parts of Meridian is possibly stepping on some toes in terms of what her capabilities and background are.

I wouldn't worry about stepping on toes regarding your magical capabilities. Methods play a lot more into it than the raw numbers, anyway, and with that Correspondence/Entropy/Prime combo, it looks like Meridian's specialty can be summed up as "creating problems somewhere else".

Honestly, I suspect the worst might be learning that "these assholes did WHAT? And got AWAY with it?"

Warpmind wrote:I wouldn't worry about stepping on toes regarding your magical capabilities. Methods play a lot more into it than the raw numbers, anyway, and with that Correspondence/Entropy/Prime combo, it looks like Meridian's specialty can be summed up as "creating problems somewhere else".

Honestly, I suspect the worst might be learning that "these assholes did WHAT? And got AWAY with it?"

I think when I made Meridian at first her thing was going to be very focused on sympathetic and extremely coincidental magic.

I'm wondering if Spirit/Life/Prime might fill more gaps, sticking to the same theme as a sort of seer or possibly a medium. Meridian would be practically the same although a little brighter and less dark all the time.

- I semi-echo Warp here. Sometimes, having 'more people who can do the same thing' is good, or at least neutral. For example, having 'another' person with healing magick is an clear asset, while having another silversmith is perhaps not [esp as often we run 'split scenes']. My own personal concern was that Meridian might end up overlapping Nicole's own 'Streets' setup and thus be somewhat redundant - but now I see that's not an issue. Also, Mage is the game where two PCs can have the same Spheres but hugely different Rotes.

- I think I am being misunderstood - I was asking 'why does the character need to be from Boston?' What I've read suggests she'd be as strong a PC if she hailed from Chicago, or Detroit, or Seattle. What's more, if Meridian has no 'connections' to Boston, desires to not be noticed and has 'official problems' in the city... why the hell would she remain? This doesn't really add up to me [and will be the first question Nick would ask on hearing the story]. But don't get me wrong, I don't mind either way. Plus, I thought you may not like having to do the extra legwork of playing a Boston 'local'.