Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

[Warpmind]

Colin shrugged, "No particular interest, Sir, but any book that causes enough contention to warrant its use as a blunt implement of instruction is intriguing in and of itself. Hum, an instruction book on Time... How appropriate."
He scratched his cheek, "I believe Adley is the best qualified to describe how it is to have one's Avatar offered up for such... transplants. I was under the distinct impression it was not a... severe procedure, nor that there would be a need for a major transplant. Was I mistaken?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin shrugged, "No particular interest, Sir, but any book that causes enough contention to warrant its use as a blunt implement of instruction is intriguing in and of itself. Hum, an instruction book on Time... How appropriate."

"Indeed it is nearly poetic."
Joakim muttered and sigh.
"Well two of our Initiates wanted to book and they do not like one another to much, now both of them have a headache and none of them have the book, they can have it back when they learn to behave like mages and not like rabid dogs and cause disturbances at my Chantry."
The hedge wizard said sternly.

He scratched his cheek, "I believe Adley is the best qualified to describe how it is to have one's Avatar offered up for such... transplants. I was under the distinct impression it was not a... severe procedure, nor that there would be a need for a major transplant. Was I mistaken?"

Kristina nodded she lifted one hand and looked apologetic.
"It is not my business and I shall not pry into it to much, I do apologize."
She said though she looked a bit concerned.

[Adley]

Kristina nodded and sigh. "You are probably right Adley, Prince Lodin is not a man to trifle with." She agreed.

"We know Nicolai has been influencing Lodin - hence why he is getting this part of the deal. Colin had thought perhaps showing that Nicolai was acting foolishly might help our cause, but again I was concerned he either would not believe us or to put it flatly, care. But we do need to get that node out of the hands of the Nephandi. Somehow."

Tell her that two mage factions or sects want this boy and that there are no pleasant fate awaiting him if he is caught by any of them, be honest with her about that, but also tell her that one of ours and probably some of the Nephandi are after him so harboring him can be dangerous and add that he have valuable information and let her make up her own mind on whatever she want to protect Tian or not."
Joakim said. "I think that will be the best way to do it."

"I am thinking she might but I don't want any issues. But again, she is not stupid. She likely already knows that this man would be taken in by her own legal system if he were a vampire committing crimes I assume though she will not be able to understand why Nephandi cannot simply change faction. Perhaps it will suffice to be upfront as possible with her. What about Mr Devereaux?"

"He is Primordial...I remember for I met him before he was kidnapped if the is Sebastian Silverberg. I am Primordial and my Avatar reacted strongly to his." Kristina said then she raised an eyebrow."Using and Avatar to stitch up another that sounds...quite...gruesome."

"Alright, if you say so... Cita's handiwork is the finest around, and if anyone can avoid collateral damage, it's her, but if you have objections... I'll not press it. You're the one who's been through the... donor side of things, in that regard; you'd know more about that than me, right?

He didn't look pleased at having his situation of being used to sutre Bee up be aired but it slowed his sudden pacing. He came and sat down again. "I agree Cita is...she is very good. Very...her technical prowess and desire to help those in need are not what I'm questioning. I have trusted her myself. Even she knows that things are not so cut and dry and questions if it is the right to do at times. You see, I recall her speaking of not just using a bit of an avatar as a suture, and even that has repercussions, but much more of it, so I do not think my experience will be the same as his, no his would be far, far worse." He sighed. "This Tian, does he look so?" He closed his eyes and tried to recall the man in the cell, the man with the green eyes as best he could, the shard that had touched him with its memories.

"Is this about my relative, Beatrice Alexander right? She is hurt? I did not even know you could take something from one Avatar and put it into another, nothing but Quintessence at least, but it sounds to me that cutting up a prisoner for spare parts is...cruel beyond words, I can not imagine how much that would make him suffer, then again if it is something that can be offered instead of Gilgul...if he is caught then, well being left with some of one's Avatar is better than nothing...but if you say that Miss Alexander would not want this, do anyone have the right to force it on her?"

He scratched his cheek, "I believe Adley is the best qualified to describe how it is to have one's Avatar offered up for such... transplants. I was under the distinct impression it was not a... severe procedure, nor that there would be a need for a major transplant. Was I mistaken?"

"Procedure..." He spat the word, which sounded all too Technocratic in origin and did not seem to fully encompass what they were talking about here. "Colin, I gave that willingly...both me and my avatar did. That is only one of the differences between pulling someone unwilling and using me as a...donor. I was told that if they found a match, they would use far larger parts of their avatar and I cannot think that will not have an impact. It could in fact change things too much, make it harder to..." He eyed him a moment. He wasn't about to talk about their recent revelation but it made sense why his sample had been so easy to transfer to her now. "Second, I recall her saying there was another way to ease her pain and I think we should try that first as soon as we can. Third, the prisoner would be kept for however long, used like that in pain and agony...suffering as he lost parts of his avatar." He frowned, looking ready to pace again but instead he closed his eyes and took a deep breath and let it out.

"In my Seeking, she...was crippled by the pain, dying. For whatever reason, the other plan had not been seen through and though we protested against it and though I offered my own avatar in lieu, her mentor decided to use a Nephandus's avatar. To use mine, I could have been sick for months or possibly unable to learn more spheres of magick. I held down this man as he screamed and begged and they took the samples out of him, stripped them from his avatar and then they operated on her. And it seemed to have eased her suffering, she slept. But the man did not, he was in constant agony, begging his captors for relief that none of us could give him. And so I stayed with him, though there was little else I could do then, but know that I had failed him and that what had happened to prevent her death had been...wrong. That I could not let it stop me from doing what I needed to do but understand how easily I could become a monster...I don't know if this is what is to come, a warning of something I will not be able to avoid or something I need to change. But it likely is a good representation of what Tian's fate would be if he were used in such a way."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"We know Nicolai has been influencing Lodin - hence why he is getting this part of the deal. Colin had thought perhaps showing that Nicolai was acting foolishly might help our cause, but again I was concerned he either would not believe us or to put it flatly, care. But we do need to get that node out of the hands of the Nephandi. Somehow."

Isabella looked down and played with some of the fabric of her dress.
"There is one way to take out the Node, it is the roof is it not...the execution grounds?"
She muttered and Kristina shook her head.
"Yes it is that roof but we will think of something else Izzy, I know what you are considering but no."
She declared sharply. Isabella sigh but she continued.
"If something, an explosive magical or mundane was placed inside of me, one that reacted with heat...well if no other solution is found then..."
Kristina shook her head.
"No absolutely not, we will take out the Nephandi or get Lodin to see reason somehow...no just no!"
She declared.

"I am thinking she might but I don't want any issues. But again, she is not stupid. She likely already knows that this man would be taken in by her own legal system if he were a vampire committing crimes I assume though she will not be able to understand why Nephandi cannot simply change faction. Perhaps it will suffice to be upfront as possible with her. What about Mr Devereaux?"

"Yes being upfront with your contact is probably the best way to go about it."
Joakim said he glanced at Isabella concerned by what she had just offered to do.
"Well other vampires, Miss Jarden here for example have been able to understand that part, at least on some level so perhaps your contact will as well and we need to gain some trust with her. As for Mr Devereux, he is a problem, I will talk with Master Min, our Senior Quaesitor and see if he can reel the man in a bit. But do warn your contact about him, Jack Devereux is a dangerous man."
He said and sigh it was clear his patience with the Virtual Adept Hoplite was rather frayed.

He didn't look pleased at having his situation of being used to sutre Bee up be aired but it slowed his sudden pacing. He came and sat down again. "I agree Cita is...she is very good. Very...her technical prowess and desire to help those in need are not what I'm questioning. I have trusted her myself. Even she knows that things are not so cut and dry and questions if it is the right to do at times. You see, I recall her speaking of not just using a bit of an avatar as a suture, and even that has repercussions, but much more of it, so I do not think my experience will be the same as his, no his would be far, far worse." He sighed.

Kristina was quiet for a moment she could see that the young Hermetic did not like to discuss the topic and many mages was not pleased about discussing their Avatars, it was a most private concern, finally she said.
"I can see the logic from Master Telar's perspective, I guess the goal is to get an Avatar as close to Miss Alexander's as possible, so that there is not much modification that need to be done to make it fit her...well that is as far as my understanding go, and she is probably thinking that a captured Fallen will be Gilgulled anyway so while yes the operation will cause him more pain, it might be worth it to heal one of our own. I mean it is a higher order version of the question, if a member of your Chantry needed a new heart and you had a prisoner you knew would be executed, would it be right to take his. One side of the argument would be that to let your ally continue to suffer and waste the heart would be a bigger crime than to take it, the other side of the argument is that it is an inhuman action, and need and practically do not make it more human..."
She muttered.

He sighed. "This Tian, does he look so?" He closed his eyes and tried to recall the man in the cell, the man with the green eyes as best he could, the shard that had touched him with its memories.

You remember a small, thin man with the grunt body that often came with Jhor, he was handsome though, almost a bit feminine with large, almond shaped, emerald green eyes, and coal black hair that stood in stark contract to his skin that was so pale is was nearly translucent, another sign of Jhor, his features was fine and sharp and you suspected he would have a nice smile though in your Seeking you had not seen it.

There was a silence in the room as Adley spoke about what had happened to the prisoner in his Seeking, an unpleasant silence, a reminder of how easy it was to do something monstrous if the need was great enough but the Hermetic's tale sounded so brutal it was hard not to feel for the young captive.
"Well let us hope something like that will not be necessary."
Kristina said then she added.
"You spoke about another way to ease Miss Alexander's pain if she should get to weak to be able to handle it until she heals, perhaps that is something someone at Morningstar can help you with arranging if you tell us what she needs."
She suggested.

[Warpmind]

Colin pondered, "If it's not too much of a... legal problem, might it be possible for me to have a look at the book before we head back ot Boston? I think I'm going to need to study the subject further, myself, even if perhaps that book is a little too advanced for me at present; copying a few pages might advance my own research significantly. I'm not asking you to betray Hermetic secrets, by no means, but... I've been thrown for three separate loops over the past few days; I'd like to find some way to get a little more... control, perhaps, or maybe find out a little more about how I am going to do it, if it is going to be my doing."
He frowned, "Damn, that last loop is only two months away; if that actually is my doing, that's going to be... tricky."
He pulled out his little notebook and opened it to the page where he'd drawn Tian's portrait, swollen eye and assorted facial injuries included, "I'm afraid I couldn't capture him at his best, but the nurse at the clinic confirmed this is the patient who scarpered. This is Tian, or Sebastian, presumed Silverberg..."
He grimaced, "Ah, I was under the distinct impression it would be the spiritual equivalent of, well, a skin graft or similar. A miniscule transplant, as opposed to the equivalent of a major organ. I.. .agree; if those are the prospects for an unwilling donor, that's a moral price I don't think I can afford, either... I do have one small thing that should help Beatrice, though."
He fished out the stone rose, "Adley, if you recall, I mentioned this blue apatite when we woke up in Master Harris' time bubble, before we headed out to the post office... Mrs. Knox kindly left it for me when I was in Lady Crexia's care after we visited the post office. Its touch does have a rather pleasantly soothing effect on my Avatar, and it perfectly matches the one Beatrice said I'd given her after we returned from Boston. It should help Beatrice deal with the pain, at least partially, once we get back."
He pondered, "Hm, come to think of it, at that point, I remember she's a frail little thing, only recently on the path of physically recovering from her ordeal, but I don't recall her receiving a transplant..."
His eyes widened as Isabella suggested a suicide run, "Oh, Hell no, ma'am. I'll be damned if I condone sending anyone on a kamikaze mission like that - any explosive strong enough to take out the prince's court as you suggest would likely cause collateral damage for several floors, not to mention damage to the surrounding buildings, the street below, and potentially dozens, if not hundreds of innocent fatalities. Yourself included. Absolutely not."
He thought for a moment, "If that sort of incendiary tactic should be employed, I should rather teach my power-draining rote to someone sufficiently talented with fire to tap the node and send a swift, enduring stream of hellfire in through the Prince's window. And even that is something I should prefer to avoid, due to the aforementioned collateral casualties and damage."

[Adley]

She declared sharply. Isabella sigh but she continued. "If something, an explosive magical or mundane was placed inside of me, one that reacted with heat...well if no other solution is found then...

His eyes widened as Isabella suggested a suicide run, "Oh, Hell no, ma'am. I'll be damned if I condone sending anyone on a kamikaze mission like that - any explosive strong enough to take out the prince's court as you suggest would likely cause collateral damage for several floors, not to mention damage to the surrounding buildings, the street below, and potentially dozens, if not hundreds of innocent fatalities. Yourself included. Absolutely not." He thought for a moment, "If that sort of incendiary tactic should be employed, I should rather teach my power-draining rote to someone sufficiently talented with fire to tap the node and send a swift, enduring stream of hellfire in through the Prince's window. And even that is something I should prefer to avoid, due to the aforementioned collateral casualties and damage.

He frowned at Isabella, thinking of what she was offering them. "I would not wish to put you in such a position. However, yes we know the node is the execution ground...the vampires cannot use it, they do not see what they have made. That is one main reason why I am so concerned should they execute the Autarkis. When I asked for your help though I did not mean a suicide run. Knowing about the building how we might be able to access the node, and prevent loss of life if we need to make a strategic hit was more what I was considering. I was thinking though if we could get something in the building...also, we found that Abigail's familiar, in the form of a cat, is being held in exchange for one of Nicolai's childer. Perhaps that might draw her out as well, or since the Nephandi have left that one staked, if we could find them...but I must agree with Colin and Kristina. Your offer, while I cannot help but feel grateful for your offer of such a sacrifice...as sometimes those are necessary, I do hope we can find a better option." He shook his head.

"Yes being upfront with your contact is probably the best way to go about it." Joakim said he glanced at Isabella concerned by what she had just offered to do. "Well other vampires, Miss Jarden here for example have been able to understand that part, at least on some level so perhaps your contact will as well and we need to gain some trust with her. As for Mr Devereux, he is a problem, I will talk with Master Min, our Senior Quaesitor and see if he can reel the man in a bit. But do warn your contact about him, Jack Devereux is a dangerous man."

"Pray tell how I can let her know there is a hoplite after him without it being...frowned upon?" Or straight up illegal, as the case could be made...

"I can see the logic from Master Telar's perspective, I guess the goal is to get an Avatar as close to Miss Alexander's as possible...the other side of the argument is that it is an inhuman action, and need and practically do not make it more human..."

He shook his head. "There is another argument. The avatar is not the heart, simply put. It is of a higher, perhaps one of the highest, manifestations. Even those of us like Cita who are skilled have only so much understanding and such is compromised by our personal limitations. Transplanting ephemera that is as complex as an avatar is difficult enough but there is the moral question of is it the right thing to do, should it be done? And then there is the more subtle question - do we even know what we are doing? What the outcome would be? What the true impact is, down the line? What we are putting our hands on, pawing at with limited understanding when we brand or break apart an avatar, when we transfer this mysterious and unique light within us, that we have been gifted with, into our care? I have to question this, I have to. From what I've seen...and know. I don't have the knowledge at my fingertips to readily explain right now but I have seen...these things for a reason."

"The man I saw had the most beautiful green eyes, like emeralds, almond shaped. Almost feline. He was slim and handsome, almost but not quite androgynous, or more feminine than a more robust masculine build one might find. He was very pale with angled features, a sharp nose and black hair."

He pulled out his little notebook and opened it to the page where he'd drawn Tian's portrait, swollen eye and assorted facial injuries included, "I'm afraid I couldn't capture him at his best, but the nurse at the clinic confirmed this is the patient who scarpered. This is Tian, or Sebastian, presumed Silverberg...

He took the notebook and looked at the portrait that was handed to him and tried to imagine the man without the beating Gabriel had bestowed upon him.

"Well let us hope something like that will not be necessary." Kristina said then she added. "You spoke about another way to ease Miss Alexander's pain if she should get to weak to be able to handle it until she heals, perhaps that is something someone at Morningstar can help you with arranging if you tell us what she needs."

"Yes, I recall something else I was told that might help. Something from the world of ghosts, something that would ease her pain. I think I recall them being called spectres. I know someone I might ask about this material but not until these current crises have resolved. Have heard about something like this? At any rate, that is why I feel so vehemently about it..."

I do have one small thing that should help Beatrice, though." He fished out the stone rose, "Adley, if you recall, I mentioned this blue apatite when we woke up in Master Harris' time bubble, before we headed out to the post office... Mrs. Knox kindly left it for me when I was in Lady Crexia's care after we visited the post office. Its touch does have a rather pleasantly soothing effect on my Avatar, and it perfectly matches the one Beatrice said I'd given her after we returned from Boston. It should help Beatrice deal with the pain, at least partially, once we get back."

"Oh?" This news seemed to cheer him somewhat and pull him away from the horrible feelings of that part of his Seeking."I did forget about this, yes. I hope it helps."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin pondered, "If it's not too much of a... legal problem, might it be possible for me to have a look at the book before we head back ot Boston? I think I'm going to need to study the subject further, myself, even if perhaps that book is a little too advanced for me at present; copying a few pages might advance my own research significantly. I'm not asking you to betray Hermetic secrets, by no means, but... I've been thrown for three separate loops over the past few days; I'd like to find some way to get a little more... control, perhaps, or maybe find out a little more about how I am going to do it, if it is going to be my doing."

"It should not be a problem Mr Wainwright, the book is written based on Hermetic theory but there are no Hermetic secrets in there, our Paradigm and main body of work as such is not secret, some of our workings and rituals are as well as Enochian beyond the mundane level of understanding, if you drop by my office you can have a look at the book and see if there is anything there that will help your studies."
Joakim said kindly.

He frowned, "Damn, that last loop is only two months away; if that actually is my doing, that's going to be... tricky."

"Hum...no that is not allot of time to study indeed, though not impossible still it is unlikely then that the loop is your doing at that point at least."
The hedge wizard agreed.

He pulled out his little notebook and opened it to the page where he'd drawn Tian's portrait, swollen eye and assorted facial injuries included, "I'm afraid I couldn't capture him at his best, but the nurse at the clinic confirmed this is the patient who scarpered. This is Tian, or Sebastian, presumed Silverberg..."

Adley the portrait of Tian is quite similar from the unfortunate green eyed prisoner in your Seeking, the same eyes, the same facial features even if obscured by bruises.

He fished out the stone rose, "Adley, if you recall, I mentioned this blue apatite when we woke up in Master Harris' time bubble, before we headed out to the post office... Mrs. Knox kindly left it for me when I was in Lady Crexia's care after we visited the post office. Its touch does have a rather pleasantly soothing effect on my Avatar, and it perfectly matches the one Beatrice said I'd given her after we returned from Boston. It should help Beatrice deal with the pain, at least partially, once we get back."

Kristina glanced at the stone rose and smile a little.
"I am glad you find it useful Mr Wainwright."
She said and nodded.
"It is said blue Apatite is soothing to the soul so I bought one when a Virtual Adept I know lost a Core War, it seamed to help, at least a little, and it helped me after my operation so I thought it might help you as well and if it can give some relief to my relative in Boston that do please me."
She said.
"I doubt it can help much with a pain great enough to eventually tire a person out to the point of death though, the effect is rather subtle, though there may be ways of strengthening the metaphysical effects of a stone...hum..."

His eyes widened as Isabella suggested a suicide run, "Oh, Hell no, ma'am. I'll be damned if I condone sending anyone on a kamikaze mission like that - any explosive strong enough to take out the prince's court as you suggest would likely cause collateral damage for several floors, not to mention damage to the surrounding buildings, the street below, and potentially dozens, if not hundreds of innocent fatalities. Yourself included. Absolutely not."

Isabella gave a bit of a smile to that.
"Your concern is warming Sir. We do not have to take out the Prince's court, nor do I want to, I do not want to take lives, all we need to do is take out the roof he uses or at least damage it enough to disturb the Node."
She said softly and looked nervously down.

He thought for a moment, "If that sort of incendiary tactic should be employed, I should rather teach my power-draining rote to someone sufficiently talented with fire to tap the node and send a swift, enduring stream of hellfire in through the Prince's window. And even that is something I should prefer to avoid, due to the aforementioned collateral casualties and damage."

"But that could end up killing both the Prince and others at Elysium at the time, I only want to take out the Node Sir, not Elysium itself."
Isabella said softly.
"Only that damned roof."

He frowned at Isabella, thinking of what she was offering them. "I would not wish to put you in such a position. However, yes we know the node is the execution ground...the vampires cannot use it, they do not see what they have made. That is one main reason why I am so concerned should they execute the Autarkis. When I asked for your help though I did not mean a suicide run.

"I know that is not what you meant Sir nor did I mean it as the first thing to try...I meant if there is no other choice...then you know I would end up on that roof if caught and I am willing to die to stop the Nephandi, like all members of this Chantry are and I will pull my weight."
Isabella said and glanced up at Adley.
"I do not know much about how killing an Elder Tremere will affect the Node though but if it will then we need to stop it."
She commented.

Knowing about the building how we might be able to access the node, and prevent loss of life if we need to make a strategic hit was more what I was considering. I was thinking though if we could get something in the building

"Well Elysium are located in a hidden floor that the Prince had built as the skyscraper was constructed, all the entrances to this floor is guarded but the roof itself have an observation area for tourists, but the other roofs are much more popular perhaps the humans can feel that the place is...wrong, the place will be closed down a night though, you might be able to get to it, though there are guards in the building at night and some of them are ghouls, there might also be a sewer access to the building but those I do not know anything about."
Isabella said.

also, we found that Abigail's familiar, in the form of a cat, is being held in exchange for one of Nicolai's childer. Perhaps that might draw her out as well, or since the Nephandi have left that one staked, if we could find them...but I must agree with Colin and Kristina. Your offer, while I cannot help but feel grateful for your offer of such a sacrifice...as sometimes those are necessary, I do hope we can find a better option." He shook his head.

"I hope we can find a better option as well, I have no desire to die."
Isabella said and there where fear in her pretty blue eyes.
"But there are those I love in this world and this Chantry saved me from a fate worse than death so I will do, whatever it takes. Now as for Nicolai, he and the cat then will be at the Chantry, his Chantry...which I do know where is."
She said. Joacom nodded.
"Hum...if we could get that cat...well tracing the familiar bond between it and it's owner should be possible."
He commented.
"And if we take Nicolai out of the equation then we at least slow Abigail down considerably."
He said and Isabella nodded.
"It might not be necessary to kill him though, if he have given Abigail a peace hostage and she is abusing this person, he will not be pleased, not at all, Nicolai care about his people."

"Pray tell how I can let her know there is a hoplite after him without it being...frowned upon?" Or straight up illegal, as the case could be made...

"Tell her the Sheriff in our society is after him."
Isabella said.
"That is basically the same position Mr Devereux have in Mage society in this Tribunal and that will make sense to any vampire of the Camarilla."
Joakim nodded.
"Well she knows her own society better than I do."
He commented.
"I would take Miss Jarden's advice.

He shook his head. "There is another argument. The avatar is not the heart, simply put. It is of a higher, perhaps one of the highest, manifestations. Even those of us like Cita who are skilled have only so much understanding and such is compromised by our personal limitations. Transplanting ephemera that is as complex as an avatar is difficult enough but there is the moral question of is it the right thing to do, should it be done? And then there is the more subtle question - do we even know what we are doing? What the outcome would be? What the true impact is, down the line? What we are putting our hands on, pawing at with limited understanding when we brand or break apart an avatar, when we transfer this mysterious and unique light within us, that we have been gifted with, into our care? I have to question this, I have to. From what I've seen...and know. I don't have the knowledge at my fingertips but I have seen...these things for a reason."

"You are saying we are like children playing with matches, and worse we are doing so near the most rare and beautiful of forests...you might be right."
Kristina said and nodded.
"Who knows how such a transplant would change my relative's Avatar, not to mention the morality of it...however if this become a question in the future, I am sure the situation is grave, what would you do if Miss Alexander can not survive the suffering any longer, and her Avatar is not strong enough to reincarnate? What if a situation like that arose, let us pray it do not, but what if?"
The Verbena added softly.
"Well let us just hope we never have to ask that question."

"The man I saw had the most beautiful green eyes, like emeralds, almond shaped. Almost feline. He was slim and handsome, almost but not quite androgynous, or more feminine than a more robust masculine build one might find. He was very pale with angled features, a sharp nose and black hair."

Colin to you that do sound quite similar to the young Nephandus you saw that had a Prime Bolt on you but refrained from using it at the Post Office.

He took the notebook and looked at the portrait that was handed to him and tried to imagine the man without the beating Gabriel had bestowed upon him.

The drawing is quite similar, though yes Gabriel had not been kind to the younger Nephandus, but you think it is a drawing of the same man.

"Yes, I recall something else I was told that might help. Something from the world of ghosts, something that would ease her pain. I think I recall them being called spectres. I know someone I might ask about this material but not until these current crises have resolved. Have heard about something like this? At any rate, that is why I feel so vehemently about it..."

"Hum...well Specters are a type of ghosts and generally not the most fun and kind type...but at time they can get you what you need...for a price."
Isabella said.
"Necromancy is not my strong suit though..."
Kristina nodded.
"Hum...could it be what you have been told about is painkillers that have gotten a spiritual presence, that might work for an Avatar and yes wraiths would be the ones to talk to in able to get it, but such good do not come cheap..."
She commented.

"Oh?" This news seemed to cheer him somewhat and pull him away from the horrible feelings of that part of his Seeking."I did forget about this, yes. I hope it helps."

"I hired the services of a Dreamspeaker when I changed my main working tools from blood to stones, he is the best at working with stones I know, him and the Garou...ehm werewolf I buy most of my stones from, I can ask them if they know a way to strengthen the effect of the Apatite."
Kristina offered.

[Warpmind]

Colin smiled, "Thank you, Sir. I hope it will be enlightening."
He shook his head to Isabella, "I don't think explosives could have the faintest hope of taking out a Node. Not like that. If the rooftop itself is not too heavily warded, all I would need is access to a rooftop with a direct line of sight, say immediately across the street, and I could blow it out, quite literally. That, however, would fall under the purview of Highly Inadvisable Magic, to quote Terry Pratchett; while I'd hardly object to become a legend in my lifetime, that's rather not how I would like the legend to go. No, we should rather need some less... conflagratory means of dealing with the problem, if at all possible."
He grinned, "Well if it's necromancy we need, I'm sure we could ask Freddy for help - she's suggested that if I do something stupid and die prematurely, she knows a necromancer she can get to haul me back for a proper tongue-lashing."
He pondered for a moment, arching an eyebrow at Kristina, "I know every rock and tree and creature has a life, has a spirit, has a name... I... have an idea, actually. But I should rather test it on another piece of apatite, rather than risk damaging the rose. Mrs. Knox, I don't suppose you have another piece of the gemstone in question? I think I might be able to do something subtle, only affecting the, hm, natural quintessence flow of the stone. It shouldn't take long, and if I'm right, you'll get a slightly more potent gem back. Well, temporarily more potent, at least; I'm not so sure I can create a permanent improvement. If I can't work it out, we have an unusually gifted Dreamspeaker back home, with a Rokea brother. Er, that's a wereshark, if you're not familiar with the breed."

((OOC: So, the idea here is to use Prime to first examine the gem's natural quintessence flow, and then if it seems viable, amplify the stone's "breathing" to a higher flow rate.))
((OOC2: Yes, Colin's quoting Disney songs. I'd say "so sue me", except the Mouse's lawyers might take me literally. ))

[Adley]

Adley the portrait of Tian is quite similar from the unfortunate green eyed prisoner in your Seeking, the same eyes, the same facial features even if obscured by bruises.

"Well, it looks like him to me..." he said with a frown. His eyes looked sad as he passed the notebook back to Colin.

"I do not know much about how killing an Elder Tremere will affect the Node though but if it will then we need to stop it."
She commented.

"I don't know for certain but it is my best guess...the Nephandi like to hedge their bets and it would make sense to take such an opportunity and turn it to their advantage if they could." He listened to her explain the layout and then asked, "I think I know which office is Lodin's and which roof the node is on. Do you think you could sketch out what you just told me?"

"But there are those I love in this world and this Chantry saved me from a fate worse than death so I will do, whatever it takes. Now as for Nicolai, he and the cat then will be at the Chantry, his Chantry...which I do know where is."She said.

Joacom nodded. "Hum...if we could get that cat...well tracing the familiar bond between it and it's owner should be possible." He commented. "And if we take Nicolai out of the equation then we at least slow Abigail down considerably.

"It might not be necessary to kill him though, if he have given Abigail a peace hostage and she is abusing this person, he will not be pleased, not at all, Nicolai care about his people."

"That could be very helpful if you would be willing to disclose what you know about the chantry. Of course, trying to raid a Tremere chantry will be...about as difficult as raiding a Technocrat's Construct I imagine but if we could get the cat, that could give us the advantage we need. Plus, Nicolai should be hearing that his wayward childer was burned about now. I can also pass on to my contact that we heard that the one childer traded to Abigail is being kept under the stake. Unless that was agreed to before hand I cannot imagine that would go over well."

"Tell her the Sheriff in our society is after him." Isabella said. "That is basically the same position Mr Devereux have in Mage society in this Tribunal and that will make sense to any vampire of the Camarilla."

"And disclosing such would be legal, if put to questioning, as currently she is an ally and not seen as aiding the Nephandi?" he asked the Chief.

"You are saying we are like children playing with matches, and worse we are doing so near the most rare and beautiful of forests...you might be right."

"Something like that..."

"Who knows how such a transplant would change my relative's Avatar, not to mention the morality of it...however if this become a question in the future, I am sure the situation is grave, what would you do if Miss Alexander can not survive the suffering any longer, and her Avatar is not strong enough to reincarnate? What if a situation like that arose, let us pray it do not, but what if?" The Verbena added softly. "Well let us just hope we never have to ask that question."

"I do not know," he replied honestly. "We will have to see what happens and what we learn in the meantime. Right now, we have generally decided the direction we are taking, I believe, whether that leads us there, or not, for good or ill...or both." That the man had fallen into their hands so many times did not bode well for him, nor what his seeking had shown him. The question of how far he would go would no doubt continue to be important but all was not lost, at least not for everyone. What good it might do Tian or even Bee however, he could not precisely say. "What I know is that I can look out for other ways and I cannot give up hope, nor can I look away if it should occur."

"Hum...could it be what you have been told about is painkillers that have gotten a spiritual presence, that might work for an Avatar and yes wraiths would be the ones to talk to in able to get it, but such good do not come cheap..."She commented.

"Considering we know the cost of one of the actions, it could bear looking into. But it is a matter of time."

He grinned, "Well if it's necromancy we need, I'm sure we could ask Freddy for help - she's suggested that if I do something stupid and die prematurely, she knows a necromancer she can get to haul me back for a proper tongue-lashing.

He raised an eyebrow at him. He'd come a bit too close to losing Freddy and Colin just earlier and hadn't quite caught up to his sense of gallows humor yet.

"I hired the services of a Dreamspeaker when I changed my main working tools from blood to stones, he is the best at working with stones I know, him and the Garou...ehm werewolf I buy most of my stones from, I can ask them if they know a way to strengthen the effect of the Apatite."

"That could be very helpful," he said with a nod.

He pondered for a moment, arching an eyebrow at Kristina, "I know every rock and tree and creature has a life, has a spirit, has a name... I... have an idea, actually. But I should rather test it on another piece of apatite, rather than risk damaging the rose. Mrs. Knox, I don't suppose you have another piece of the gemstone in question? I think I might be able to do something subtle, only affecting the, hm, natural quintessence flow of the stone. It shouldn't take long, and if I'm right, you'll get a slightly more potent gem back. Well, temporarily more potent, at least; I'm not so sure I can create a permanent improvement. If I can't work it out, we have an unusually gifted Dreamspeaker back home, with a Rokea brother. Er, that's a wereshark, if you're not familiar with the breed."

Completely missing the reference to the Pocahontas movie, Adley gave him a serious nod at his description. "There are of more abstract concepts as well," he said. "It seems you have a new idea. Good."

// lol, suddenly Chantry Steelhaven: the musical

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin smiled, "Thank you, Sir. I hope it will be enlightening."

"I hope so as well and the best of luck with your studies Mr Wainwright."
Joakim said and nodded.

He shook his head to Isabella, "I don't think explosives could have the faintest hope of taking out a Node. Not like that. If the rooftop itself is not too heavily warded, all I would need is access to a rooftop with a direct line of sight, say immediately across the street, and I could blow it out, quite literally. That, however, would fall under the purview of Highly Inadvisable Magic, to quote Terry Pratchett; while I'd hardly object to become a legend in my lifetime, that's rather not how I would like the legend to go. No, we should rather need some less... conflagratory means of dealing with the problem, if at all possible."

Isabella nodded.
"Off course it is not an option that should be taken if there is anything else we can do, I am just saying that if there is not I am willing to...do it, but if you have a way to blow up the Node from afar then that is a far better plan B Sir."
The vampiress said with a bit of a smile.

He grinned, "Well if it's necromancy we need, I'm sure we could ask Freddy for help - she's suggested that if I do something stupid and die prematurely, she knows a necromancer she can get to haul me back for a proper tongue-lashing."

"Well she sounds like quite a woman, but yes speaking with ghosts might be what we need yes."
Isabella said and grinned to you.

He pondered for a moment, arching an eyebrow at Kristina, "I know every rock and tree and creature has a life, has a spirit, has a name... I... have an idea, actually. But I should rather test it on another piece of apatite, rather than risk damaging the rose. Mrs. Knox, I don't suppose you have another piece of the gemstone in question? I think I might be able to do something subtle, only affecting the, hm, natural quintessence flow of the stone. It shouldn't take long, and if I'm right, you'll get a slightly more potent gem back. Well, temporarily more potent, at least; I'm not so sure I can create a permanent improvement. If I can't work it out, we have an unusually gifted Dreamspeaker back home, with a Rokea brother. Er, that's a wereshark, if you're not familiar with the breed."

"I do have a few cheap pieces yes, I shall find one for you."
Kristina said and snicker as you quote Didney songs.
"Yes well I have never met a Rokea but I know the terminology. My adoptive mother was a werewolf, I am sort of raised with this."
The Verbena said and scratched her head.
"And if you make a raised by wolves joke seriously I will slap you over the head with a salad."
She said jokingly.
"But yes let us see how your rote works Mr Wainwright."

"I don't know for certain but it is my best guess...the Nephandi like to hedge their bets and it would make sense to take such an opportunity and turn it to their advantage if they could." He listened to her explain the layout and then asked, "I think I know which office is Lodin's and which roof the node is on. Do you think you could sketch out what you just told me?"

"The question then is how do we stop this execution?"
Isabella said then she nodded and stood and went to the desk Colin had been using and picked up some spare papers and a pen from her pocket.
"I will try though I warn you drawing, technical or not is not my strong point so it will be far from the quality of Mr Wainwright's drawings but I will see what I can do."

"That could be very helpful if you would be willing to disclose what you know about the chantry. Of course, trying to raid a Tremere chantry will be...about as difficult as raiding a Technocrat's Construct I imagine but if we could get the cat, that could give us the advantage we need.

"I have no more loyalty to the Tremere."
Isabella said darkly.
"I will tell you what I know. It is a mansion out in the old Victorian district, far towards the edge of it, standing alone. The numbers of members can have changed since I where there, but last time I checked there where five fully fledged Tremere and six apprentices where four where still human. In addition to this Nicolai have two Gargoyles, well they are vampires of sort, but they are giant monstrosities of muscle, teeth and claws that can turn to stone, they are the main guards of the house though there is also a team of ghoul guards and servants. I can draw up a schematic of that building as well if you wish Sir?"
Isabella offered as she worked with drawing up maps of Elysium.

Plus, Nicolai should be hearing that his wayward childer was burned about now. I can also pass on to my contact that we heard that the one childer traded to Abigail is being kept under the stake. Unless that was agreed to before hand I cannot imagine that would go over well."

"I doubt it was agreed upon, Nicolai will gladly stab anyone else in the back...and well...do horrible things to former allies."
Isabella said bitterly, her hand holding the pen shook slightly.
"But he treat his own childer well, he always have, so spreading that bit of information might upset him indeed."

"And disclosing such would be legal, if put to questioning, as currently she is an ally and not seen as aiding the Nephandi?" he asked the Chief.

"Your contact is a vampire and not a Nephandus, now vampires have always been a bit of an issue for our Tradition, ever since the..."
Joakim glances over at Isabella.
"Tremere incident but yes I do think it would be legal...though if your contact kill the over eager technomancer we might have a problem...on the other hand she is protecting a Nephandus...I...well you know what I do not know, at times the law get's bloddy complicated."
The Security Chief muttered sounding frustrated.
"Perhaps best not to then, and just tell her that both us and the Nephandi will be coming after this Tian putting her in danger in the process that at least should be legal to say."

"Something like that..."

Kristina nodded at that.

"I do not know," he replied honestly. "We will have to see what happens and what we learn in the meantime. Right now, we have generally decided the direction we are taking, I believe, whether that leads us there, or not, for good or ill...or both."

"Well I guess we have to deal with the problems that are right in front of us, rather than worrying about what if's right now, and just hope that the future will be kind."
Kristina said though she looked concerned, yes indeed what would happen if her young relative could not survive constant agony long enough to recover and there where no other choices to save her. Kristina glanced over at Adley for a moment but she did not say anything about it right now.

"What I know is that I can look out for other ways and I cannot give up hope, nor can I look away if it should occur."

Again Kristina nodded then she sigh.
"I can not decide if I hope we catch this boy just in case he will be needed for such a treatment...or if I hope he will get away so the option to go that far is never there in the first place."
She muttered.

"Considering we know the cost of one of the actions, it could bear looking into. But it is a matter of time."

"Basically you have been in the Penumbra, you see how buildings get a spiritual representation? Well other items can get such representation as well, but it is far more rare since a spoon for example do not have the same impact on the energies and spiritual nature of a area as a building have, but sometimes, especially during disasters for example items will get the same spiritual representation and it is such an item we might be able to use. If you want I can ask a friend to see if spiritual painkillers can be procured and the cost of doing so, whiteout off course going into details about why they would be needed."
Kristina offered.

"That could be very helpful," he said with a nod.

"I will speak to him."
Kristina said and fetched up a green, leather note book and added a note about it in her to do list.

Completely missing the reference to the Pocahontas movie, Adley gave him a serious nod at his description. "There are of more abstract concepts as well," he said. "It seems you have a new idea. Good."

"It could be promising."
Kristina said and nodded.

(OOC 1: That could actually work. And yes stones do have some metaphysical uses in WoD at least in second addition as stone lore is a secondary skill.)

(OOC 2: Lol Chantry Steelhaven the musical, well I think in particularly singing in the Nephandi language will be lovely.)

(OOC 3: Sorry for my late reply I went to be early yesterday. Oh and I might be a bit slow with my replies today as I am going out to GM Mage for one of my gaming groups and see what trouble they can get themselves into...well more trouble that is.)

[Warpmind]

Colin nodded and took back the notebook, "If the lad's fate that you foresaw is so awful, let us hope Plan A works for Beatrice, then..."
He arched an eyebrow back at Adley, "Oh, don't look at me like that - I just remembered Freddy's expression when she gave me that warning. If you had seen her then... Her eyes were quite clear on the fact that if I were to get myself killed, she would murder me."
He grinned to Isabella, "Quite the woman indeed."
He chuckled, "Thank you, Mrs. Knox - and I wouldn't dream of it. Though I have to admit to wondering about your... what do you Americans call it again... ah, senior prom? But I suppose Kevin Costner jokes are just so last century..."

((OOC: Excellent. Some quick experimentation coming up, then.))

((OOC2: Oh, Gods, no, not that Nephandi opera again. Molly's pieces would probably be pleasant, though. And I have the oddest feeling George would sit there, silently embarassed over having slipped into a Quiet so soon before departing to become a Postulate, politely making sure to forget the more awkward vocal performances made by those who get too close to his little bubble of Madness...))

OOC3: We'll survive, I'm sure. Have fun.))

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin nodded and took back the notebook, "If the lad's fate that you foresaw is so awful, let us hope Plan A works for Beatrice, then..."

Kristina looked at Colin for a moment as he and Adley spoke then he nodded, indeed plan A better work she though, but if it did not...who knew what would happen.

He grinned to Isabella, "Quite the woman indeed."

Isabella gave you a bit of a smile.
"Well then Sir I hope you are happy together."

He chuckled, "Thank you, Mrs. Knox - and I wouldn't dream of it. Though I have to admit to wondering about your... what do you Americans call it again... ah, senior prom? But I suppose Kevin Costner jokes are just so last century..."

"I never had mundane schooling, but if I did I imagine it would be fairly normal, I am not a werewolf and besides most of them are rather normal unless they decide to change shape on you. No I have taught my my mother's pack when I was a child, and then when the...issues that come with Paradox and generally being a mage got to overwhelming for them and they sent me away...I was found by a member of the Society of Leopold and worked for him for a few years until my Mentor found me and took in the Orphan girl she had just discovered dangerously close to the bloody witch hunters and who had no idea about what she was doing, and after that I was trained as a Verbena. The closest thing I have had to a prom was my initiation into my Tradition."
Kristina said and offered a small smile.
"That was quite interesting though...and bloody..."

(OOC 1: We will see if Colin blows anything up then.)

(OOC 2: Well Molly do not sing in the Dragons Tongue in her YouTube videos so they are pleasant, she could do it though. And yes that probably could drive something into a Quiet.)

(OOC 3: Thank you )

[Adley]

"The question then is how do we stop this execution?" Isabella said then she nodded and stood and went to the desk Colin had been using and picked up some spare papers and a pen from her pocket. "I will try though I warn you drawing, technical or not is not my strong point so it will be far from the quality of Mr Wainwright's drawings but I will see what I can do."

"Just do your best," he said. "And let me now what sort of defenses you've noted."

"I have no more loyalty to the Tremere." Isabella said darkly. "I will tell you what I know...I can draw up a schematic of that building as well if you wish Sir?"

"Yes please. Gargoyles? I do not suppose this is a euphemism as it is for the term Ghoul? What are they, besides I imagine house guards? What might we expect from them, or other Tremere defenses?"

"I doubt it was agreed upon, Nicolai will gladly stab anyone else in the back...and well...do horrible things to former allies." Isabella said bitterly, her hand holding the pen shook slightly. "But he treat his own childer well, he always have, so spreading that bit of information might upset him indeed."

"I will pass this along then," he said. "Not sure how far it will get but..."

"Your contact is a vampire and not a Nephandus, now vampires have always been a bit of an issue for our Tradition, ever since the..."
Joakim glances over at Isabella. "Tremere incident but yes I do think it would be legal...though if your contact kill the over eager technomancer we might have a problem...on the other hand she is protecting a Nephandus...I...well you know what I do not know, at times the law get's bloddy complicated."

"My contact is not a Tremere, though yes a vampire," he agreed. "Chief, if you don't know then it..." He sighed.

"Perhaps best not to then, and just tell her that both us and the Nephandi will be coming after this Tian putting her in danger in the process that at least should be legal to say."

"Great, hopefully she will not decide to end the partnership that we've just started..." he frowned. Well, Tyler was practical. She might understand that a Sheriff was out of his control.

Colin nodded and took back the notebook, "If the lad's fate that you foresaw is so awful, let us hope Plan A works for Beatrice, then..."

"As usual, we need more time. And I am not clear how your visions and what I've experienced collude...if yours must come to pass, I cannot say that I like how the ending works. But I know that even that is not the whole of the story...there could be worse endings." He frowned. "Questions for later."

"Well I guess we have to deal with the problems that are right in front of us, rather than worrying about what if's right now, and just hope that the future will be kind."...Kristina glanced over at Adley for a moment but she did not say anything about it right now.

Adley sat back in his seat, his arms stretched out, hands on his knees, a far away expression etched onto his face. The feelings of sadness and pain that he'd experienced in his Seeking were made fresh by the current conversation but as then he held onto the need to continue onward with the hope he carried with him. He didn't dare hope that the future would be kind but perhaps it would be different. He did not know if that meant better or worse, or worse for whom. All he could do was try to make the best decision he could, as wise that he could. After a bit he could feel Kristina looking at him and glanced over at her in turn.

"I can not decide if I hope we catch this boy just in case he will be needed for such a treatment...or if I hope he will get away so the option to go that far is never there in the first place." She muttered.

He nodded at that. "For now, let us concentrate on making the best decision we can about what is within our control."

"Basically you have been in the Penumbra, you see how buildings get a spiritual representation? Well other items can get such representation as well, but it is far more rare since a spoon for example do not have the same impact on the energies and spiritual nature of a area as a building have, but sometimes, especially during disasters for example items will get the same spiritual representation and it is such an item we might be able to use. If you want I can ask a friend to see if spiritual painkillers can be procured and the cost of doing so, whiteout off course going into details about why they would be needed."

"I see...that is interesting. I would appreciate any way to find such an item to help her. Thank you."

He arched an eyebrow back at Adley, "Oh, don't look at me like that - I just remembered Freddy's expression when she gave me that warning. If you had seen her then... Her eyes were quite clear on the fact that if I were to get myself killed, she would murder me."

He felt a faint smile tug at his lips then. "Very well, I'm glad that I missed such a look myself but the sentiment I understand." He rubbed a hand across his chin.

"Very well, if we've come to the conclusion regarding Tian I should call her back. I will first request a phone conversation with him. Chief did you wish to be in on that call? And I will tell her that Tian is a confirmed Nephandus and that he will be hunted by all the factions, putting him into the network could be dangerous for her though I would wish to avoid such danger to her and hers. This is true enough, if the Technocrats find him they will kill him too. Does anyone recall where that information about the childre under stake came from? I think it was you that told me, Colin. If it was Enrichtho, then there's no need to tell her for she would have said herself. And if her daughter does not fit Nicolai's plan I will tell her that she still should be kept safe, just in case. And if she is? What then, that should be discussed before I call her in case it is relevant. I can't help but feel that finding out she is the reincarnated avatar of the Deacon is important."

// lol not Nephandi opera again xD

[Warpmind]

Colin nodded thoughtfully, "It sounds like we have a fairly concise summary, then... The information about the staked vampire in Abigail's loving care came from Tian; you can ask your contact to verify with him. It is an interesting clusterfuck we've got here now... and ever less time to resolve it. And if possible, we should certainly look into getting Tian's daughter into protective custody. If the girl is Awakened, that's putting her and her mother at risk from the Union, the Fallen and numerous other elements; we cn't have that..."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"Just do your best," he said. "And let me now what sort of defenses you've noted."

"Alarms and armed guards for the most part for defenses Sir."
Isabella said as she focused on her drawing, after a few minutes she handed you simple sketches of the secret floor, you see that there is a large room market as the Prince's office that are facing one of the smaller roofs. Then there are two large halls, rooms for guests, several sitting rooms and offices and a guard room, most of the floor though is marked as unknown, probably the young Tremere had not been allowed in there.
"This is as good as I can do, for the rest of the tower you can probably find better schematics online."
The vampire explained as she handed you the drawings.

"Yes please. Gargoyles? I do not suppose this is a euphemism as it is for the term Ghoul? What are they, besides I imagine house guards? What might we expect from them, or other Tremere defenses?"

"Well they are actual Gargoyles really, in fact some statues on buildings are such vampires that have gone into a long hibernation in their stone forms. Now most Gargoyles are stupid, but they are strong and they are fast, think a seven or eight foot killing machine with nearly impenetrable skin with big claws and strong as an ox and you have a Gargoyle. Now the Chantry will likely be warded as well, and there might be other defensive magic and the guards will be armed."
Isabella explained.

"I will pass this along then," he said. "Not sure how far it will get but..."

"Well we will see, there is a chance it will reach Nicolai at least."
The vampiress said and sigh.
"Though then again it might not but we should try."

"My contact is not a Tremere, though yes a vampire," he agreed. "Chief, if you don't know then it..." He sighed.

"Well the vampire angle might be fine though the Code do address not getting involved with the undead...I am more concerned with your warning aiding Tian than with you discussing it with a Massassa though, but then I am not of House Guernicus I am not sure about every nook and cranny of the law."
Joakim said and sigh.

"Great, hopefully she will not decide to end the partnership that we've just started..." he frowned. Well, Tyler was practical. She might understand that a Sheriff was out of his control.

Joakim nodded and sigh.
"There is always complications, but hopefully it will work out."
He grumbled.

After a bit he could feel Kristina looking at him and glanced over at her in turn.

Kristina sigh, she did not know what to say so she said nothing, the future would be difficult for the young Hermetic and his Cabal that was all he knew, but right now they had to make sure that there was a future to come at all.

"I see...that is interesting. I would appreciate any way to find such an item to help her. Thank you."

"I will see what my contacts say then, and see what I can arrange, but like I said it most likely will be costly, in all the wrong ways."

"Very well, if we've come to the conclusion regarding Tian I should call her back. I will first request a phone conversation with him. Chief did you wish to be in on that call?

"Yes I think that would be the best solution right now, to speak with the boy over the phone, also yes I would like to be in on the conversation, ask if he will agree to you putting the call on speaker."
Joakim said and nodded.

And I will tell her that Tian is a confirmed Nephandus and that he will be hunted by all the factions, putting him into the network could be dangerous for her though I would wish to avoid such danger to her and hers. This is true enough, if the Technocrats find him they will kill him too.

"That do sound sensible."
Joakim said and nodded.
"It is not information but do get the point across."

And if her daughter does not fit Nicolai's plan I will tell her that she still should be kept safe, just in case. And if she is? What then, that should be discussed before I call her in case it is relevant. I can't help but feel that finding out she is the reincarnated avatar of the Deacon is important."

"Well you could offer that Morningstar offer protection for the girl in either case and find her a mentor, we will be all to glad for another apprentice, though off course that will make relationships with her father...complicated, but an Awakened child should get training, there is much a young mage needs to learn."
The Security Chief suggested.

It is an interesting clusterfuck we've got here now... and ever less time to resolve it. And if possible, we should certainly look into getting Tian's daughter into protective custody. If the girl is Awakened, that's putting her and her mother at risk from the Union, the Fallen and numerous other elements; we cn't have that..."

"Yes well nothing about this situation is straight forwards certainly Mr Wainwright."
Joakim said and sigh.
"But yes the child and her mother should be protected, especially now with so much shit going on around the city, it is no time or place for a young Awakened to be alone."

(OOC: Sorry for keeping you waiting, well then I am back.)

[Warpmind]

Colin frowned, "These gargoyles hardly sound like Disney material... Er, sorry, there was a cartoon series in the mid-nineties or so; I caught some of it while I was... recuperating after being shot down. Probably no semblance to reality... or what passes for it these days. The most important question, from where I'm sitting, is whether or not there's some barrier on the rooftop itself; some sort of magic blockade."
He pondered, "When Tian called his own phone, he didn't object to my putting the call on speaker - which is how Mrs. Knox managed to get a recording of it... Speaking of, did you send it to my phone yet?"
He nodded, "I think it would be more appropriate if you were to make that offer, Sir - it wouldn't be quite prudent if someone from a Boston chantry made promises of hospitality on behalf of a Chicago chantry... And under the circumstances, I really don't think we ought to offer them shelter and tutelage in Boston..."

[Adley]

"Alarms and armed guards for the most part for defenses Sir." "This is as good as I can do, for the rest of the tower you can probably find better schematics online." The vampire explained as she handed you the drawings.

"Thank you," he said, and examined it carefully before handing it over to Colin and the others.

"Well they are actual Gargoyles really, in fact some statues on buildings are such vampires that have gone into a long hibernation in their stone forms. Now most Gargoyles are stupid, but they are strong and they are fast, think a seven or eight foot killing machine with nearly impenetrable skin with big claws and strong as an ox and you have a Gargoyle. Now the Chantry will likely be warded as well, and there might be other defensive magic and the guards will be armed."

"Actual gargoyles...made of stone? Hrm...they do not sound like something we would wish to tangle with, it is too bad that we can't wait until the sun comes up." He frowned.

"Well the vampire angle might be fine though the Code do address not getting involved with the undead...I am more concerned with your warning aiding Tian than with you discussing it with a Massassa though, but then I am not of House Guernicus I am not sure about every nook and cranny of the law."

He frowned, running a hand across his face. He could not afford to be nailed to the wall by the Quesitori..."I have no desire to break the Code," he replied. Of course it appeared that despite that, under some interpretation, there was just enough room for argument that he already had. "If it comes to shove would you defend the actions I'm taking if it came before Tribunal?"

"I will see what my contacts say then, and see what I can arrange, but like I said it most likely will be costly, in all the wrong ways."

"What about finding such things ourselves?"

It is an interesting clusterfuck we've got here now... and ever less time to resolve it. And if possible, we should certainly look into getting Tian's daughter into protective custody. If the girl is Awakened, that's putting her and her mother at risk from the Union, the Fallen and numerous other elements; we cn't have that..."

"Well you could offer that Morningstar offer protection for the girl in either case and find her a mentor, we will be all to glad for another apprentice, though off course that will make relationships with her father...complicated, but an Awakened child should get training, there is much a young mage needs to learn."The Security Chief suggested.

"Very well. I will not name the chantry though. I have not asked her location, nor has she asked mine and do not wish to give away such information. We'll have to see about their location and allocation of resources to try to get them. Right. Thank you Mrs Knox, Isabella. If there is anything else you can think of that might help, please let us know. Hopefully the rest are on their way back now," he said. "Better call while there is time before your meeting," he added to the Chief.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin frowned, "These gargoyles hardly sound like Disney material... Er, sorry, there was a cartoon series in the mid-nineties or so; I caught some of it while I was... recuperating after being shot down. Probably no semblance to reality... or what passes for it these days. The most important question, from where I'm sitting, is whether or not there's some barrier on the rooftop itself; some sort of magic blockade."

"Well if beings that will gladly rip your head of to feast on your blood are Disney material Mr Wainwright then perhaps indeed they are."
Isabella said and sigh.
"However they are dangerous beings not to be taken lightly. I do not think there are any barriers on the roof other than the regular wards, but there are those and they are around the entire property and the Gargoyles themselves do fly."

He pondered, "When Tian called his own phone, he didn't object to my putting the call on speaker - which is how Mrs. Knox managed to get a recording of it... Speaking of, did you send it to my phone yet?"

(It was Rosario that did the recording and yes she have sent it to your phone."
"Good then he will probably not mind to do so again."
Joakim said and nodded.

He nodded, "I think it would be more appropriate if you were to make that offer, Sir - it wouldn't be quite prudent if someone from a Boston chantry made promises of hospitality on behalf of a Chicago chantry... And under the circumstances, I really don't think we ought to offer them shelter and tutelage in Boston..."

"Yes off course Mr Wainwright I was saying if the boy do not agree to putting the call on speaker, in which case whoever speaks with him should make the offer."
The Chief said and nodded.
"If we all speak with him I will offer protection for the girl and her mother."

"Thank you," he said, and examined it carefully before handing it over to Colin and the others.

Isabella nodded. Joakim glanced over at the drawings for a moment to get an idea of the layout.
"Have you been there as well Mrs Knox?"
He said and Kristina nodded.
"Yes I have Sir and the layout do seam about right."
The Verbena said as she also glanced over at Isabella's drawing.

"Actual gargoyles...made of stone? Hrm...they do not sound like something we would wish to tangle with, it is too bad that we can't wait until the sun comes up." He frowned.

"Yes if one is attacking vampires doing so during the day is definitively preferable...no offense Izzy."
Kristina said and the Tremere shook her head.
"None taken and yes actual Gargoyles, made of stone sometimes and flesh and blood other times but still increadably durable, and no you do not want to fight them, but I guess waiting until dawn do not work we need information now?"
She asked.

He frowned, running a hand across his face. He could not afford to be nailed to the wall by the Quesitori..."I have no desire to break the Code," he replied. Of course it appeared that despite that, under some interpretation, there was just enough room for argument that he already had. "If it comes to shove would you defend the actions I'm taking if it came before Tribunal?"

"Yes I will defend your actions before a Tribunal Mr Roth Hicks and inform it that I am taking full responsibility as the senior member of the Order here."
Joakim assured you.
"And say I advised you that according to my understanding your actions where within the confines of the law."
He added and gave you a serious look before he nodded.

"What about finding such things ourselves?"

"It is possible."
Kristina said.
"The problem is that the most common ways for items like medicines to get a spiritual presence is during great disasters and tragedies and then they tend to end up in the underworld, where the wraiths collect them, but you might get lucky and find some yourself if you look long enough."

"Very well. I will not name the chantry though. I have not asked her location, nor has she asked mine and do not wish to give away such information. We'll have to see about their location and allocation of resources to try to get them. Right.

"That do sound wise."
Joakim said and nodded.
"Better safe than sorry."

Right. Thank you Mrs Knox, Isabella. If there is anything else you can think of that might help, please let us know. Hopefully the rest are on their way back now," he said.

"I am glad to help Sir."
Isabella said and smiles.
"What if I give the others a call to make sure they are safely on the way while you try to speak with your contact Adley."
Kristina offered.

"Better call while there is time before your meeting," he added to the Chief.

Chief Joakim nodded.
"Yes do make the call and let us see what your contact and this Tian have to say."
He agreed and leaned back in his chair.

[Adley]

The most important question, from where I'm sitting, is whether or not there's some barrier on the rooftop itself; some sort of magic blockade."

"I would imagine that there is now, in some fashion. It would be nice to know ahead of time though as part of the extra protection that was promised."

"However they are dangerous beings not to be taken lightly. I do not think there are any barriers on the roof other than the regular wards, but there are those and they are around the entire property and the Gargoyles themselves do fly."

"And they fly as well," he said, with a look that said that had topped off the cake. "Well, then do they happen to have some disadvantages, other than what one would normally find with vampires?"

"None taken and yes actual Gargoyles, made of stone sometimes and flesh and blood other times but still increadably durable, and no you do not want to fight them, but I guess waiting until dawn do not work we need information now?" She asked

"Soon, at least. If the grounds are used for execution by sun, then I would imagine dawn is the critical time. Then again, perhaps Abigail would find a way to kill him before hand in her own ritual. Or, if we're lucky they can stall it but I'm not holding my breath on it, not with the way the timing seems to be going."

He nodded, "I think it would be more appropriate if you were to make that offer, Sir - it wouldn't be quite prudent if someone from a Boston chantry made promises of hospitality on behalf of a Chicago chantry... And under the circumstances, I really don't think we ought to offer them shelter and tutelage in Boston..."

"Very true, I agree."

"Yes off course Mr Wainwright I was saying if the boy do not agree to putting the call on speaker, in which case whoever speaks with him should make the offer." The Chief said and nodded. "If we all speak with him I will offer protection for the girl and her mother."

"Unless they're Nephandi, which I sincerely hope they are not," he said with a frown. "But it would bear asking. Then again, I suppose they would be in the Labyrinth, if that were the case."

"Yes I will defend your actions before a Tribunal Mr Roth Hicks and inform it that I am taking full responsibility as the senior member of the Order here." Joakim assured you. "And say I advised you that according to my understanding your actions where within the confines of the law." He added and gave you a serious look before he nodded

He gave him a frown. "Let's hope it doesn't come to that; I will likely have enough to explain. Hell, I feel like I am repeating things I've already said." He looked at Colin.

"It is possible." Kristina said. "The problem is that the most common ways for items like medicines to get a spiritual presence is during great disasters and tragedies and then they tend to end up in the underworld, where the wraiths collect them, but you might get lucky and find some yourself if you look long enough."

"So, nothing...hrm...positive is not the right word, what is the opposite of a disaster? A miracle, blessing or other great boon, cannot create these types of medicines?"

"What if I give the others a call to make sure they are safely on the way while you try to speak with your contact Adley." Kristina offered

"Thank you, as long as you don't think it will get them into trouble. Will this working you made last a while longer?"

"Yes do make the call and let us see what your contact and this Tian have to say." He agreed and leaned back in his chair.

He waited for those that were leaving to clear "I will have to let her know that I am not alone right away, then I explain our offer and will request that we can speak to Tian. And last I suppose will be the bit about Nicolai's childer and explanation of the impact of his faction if she chooses to put him into her network..." He took the phone out again and did the same working he had in the bathroom a little while beforehand. Then he proceeded to call up Tyler again.

// whups I missed your last post somehow Warp, and answered the one before, sorry! Also, gargoyles was a good cartoon.

Sense connection again: 3, 8, 7

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"I would imagine that there is now, in some fashion. It would be nice to know ahead of time though as part of the extra protection that was promised."

"I am unsure as to what protection you are referring to Mr Roth Hicks."
Joakim said and looked confused for a moment.
"I doubt Nicolai have protected his roof in particular Sir but there are wards on the place."
Isabella chimed in.

"And they fly as well," he said, with a look that said that had topped off the cake. "Well, then do they happen to have some disadvantages, other than what one would normally find with vampires?"

"Yes they fly, not very well, they are to heavy but they do fly."
The vampiress said.
"No they have no special weaknesses but as I said they are not very intelligent and also they are far more easy to mind control than others of my kind, they where created that way as my Clan use them as slaves."
Isabella said and she looked down and did not look like she was proud of that fact.

"Soon, at least. If the grounds are used for execution by sun, then I would imagine dawn is the critical time. Then again, perhaps Abigail would find a way to kill him before hand in her own ritual. Or, if we're lucky they can stall it but I'm not holding my breath on it, not with the way the timing seems to be going."

"Usually it is execution by dawn yes unless the Prince want to show mercy, it is less painful to be just thrown out into high noon than to face the dawn, well at least it is quicker."
Isabella muttered and shuddered then she said.
"Very well then Sir we need to make our move tonight it seams then if we are to stop the execution of this Tremere elder."

"Unless they're Nephandi, which I sincerely hope they are not," he said with a frown. "But it would bear asking. Then again, I suppose they would be in the Labyrinth, if that were the case."

"Damnation! I had not considered that possibility, no let us hope this woman and her child are not Nephandi I do not want to send a child to the Main Sentencing Hall and I doubt if Wolfgang could bare it if his reincarnation had Fallen."
Joakim said and he looked quite concerned.

He gave him a frown. "Let's hope it doesn't come to that; I will likely have enough to explain. Hell, I feel like I am repeating things I've already said." He looked at Colin.

"Yes indeed let us hope it do not come to that."
The old hedge wizard said then he sigh.
"Then again if there is a world there in which a Tribunal can roast our balls over an open flame that is a victory in itself the way things stands now."
He muttered.

"So, nothing...hrm...positive is not the right word, what is the opposite of a disaster? A miracle, blessing or other great boon, cannot create these types of medicines?"

"Everything can be created Adley with the right skill and knowledge, unfortunately that are knowledge I do not possess. I can ask my Mentor's husband he is a Archmage of Spirit, he might know how to create such materials."
The Verbena said and scratched her head.
"Or since this is related to wraiths perhaps the Hollowers will know something."

"Thank you, as long as you don't think it will get them into trouble. Will this working you made last a while longer?"

"I doubt giving them a call will get them into trouble."
Kristina said and raised an eyebrow.
"Yes it will last for a while."

He waited for those that were leaving to clear

Kristina stood and left and Isabella said.
"I am a fugitive in my own society, I should not put your contact on the spot but being around while you call her, I will be right outside, unless you need me for anything Sir."
The vampriess said and followed Kristina out of the room.

"I will have to let her know that I am not alone right away, then I explain our offer and will request that we can speak to Tian. And last I suppose will be the bit about Nicolai's childer and explanation of the impact of his faction if she chooses to put him into her network..."

Joakim nodded at that to say he agreed with your plan for the conversation.

He took the phone out again and did the same working he had in the bathroom a little while beforehand.

You feel the same connections as before, the sense that Tyler was not the woman's real name, and nothing from the outside, it appeared to be like before.

Then he proceeded to call up Tyler again.

The vampire rebel quickly picked up the phone and said.
"Speaking, very well then do you have anything new for me?"
She clearly liked to get straight to the point.

(OOC: Gargoyles are pretty good, I have it on DVD well the part of it that is out on DVD that is, they never did the second half of the second season.)

[Warpmind]

Colin frowned, "Great strength and durability... These gargoyles sound like work for a heavy machinegun or light missile launcher; not something easily acquired on the civilian market."
He examined the map of the roof, "Miss Jarden, which way does this rooftop face? Which buildings are across the street from it, and is any of those tall enough to give line of sight to the Prince's rooftop?"
((OOC: Ack, it was Rosario, not Kristina. My bad. ))
((OOC2: Gargoyles WAS an awesome show. And in fact you're wrong, Anja - the second half of season two IS out on DVD. Actually, I have the whole series on both DVD and VHS... the latter's no good to me, though; no VHS player. That bundle of tapes includes the first episode of the Goliath Chronicles series, which was made without the series creator. It's generally not acknowledged in the fandom, save that first episode, which was Weisman's "Thank you and goodbye" to the show... As a matter of fact, I've met him and parts of the cast - Gathering of the Gargoyles '01 in LA. Was awesome convention. :3 ))

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin frowned, "Great strength and durability... These gargoyles sound like work for a heavy machinegun or light missile launcher; not something easily acquired on the civilian market."

"Well that is generally it, bullets will not do much usually but a heavy shotgun blast might, but generally you want something that do allot of damage or you need to control their minds or confuse them."
Isabella said and sigh.
"They make good guards."

He examined the map of the roof, "Miss Jarden, which way does this rooftop face? Which buildings are across the street from it, and is any of those tall enough to give line of sight to the Prince's rooftop?"

"It faces to the East Sir, there are several buildings around it, but none of them are tall enough, there are several smaller skyscrapers around the Sears tower but none of them are anywhere near tall enough."
The vampiress said.

(OOC: Oh it is finally out, granted I have not checked in a while, time to pick that up then, thank you for letting me know.)

[Adley]

"I am unsure as to what protection you are referring to Mr Roth Hicks." Joakim said and looked confused for a moment. "I doubt Nicolai have protected his roof in particular Sir but there are wards on the place." Isabella chimed in.

"If I recall correctly, Abigail has promised the moon to the Prince, including magickal protections. That would, I assume, tend to include a resource that she wishes to use in the future."

"Yes they fly, not very well, they are to heavy but they do fly." The vampiress said. "No they have no special weaknesses but as I said they are not very intelligent and also they are far more easy to mind control than others of my kind, they where created that way as my Clan use them as slaves."

"The Tremere made them? Hrm, this sounds complicated. I could ask my contact if her friend has seen any cats. I don't know if storming the place would be the best method to get it," he said with a thoughtful frown.

"Usually it is execution by dawn yes unless the Prince want to show mercy, it is less painful to be just thrown out into high noon than to face the dawn, well at least it is quicker." Isabella muttered and shuddered then she said. "Very well then Sir we need to make our move tonight it seams then if we are to stop the execution of this Tremere elder."

"I've asked my contact to look into it as we speak but we should try to have an emergency plan ready to go. According to what I've heard, Lodin likes to watch his prisoners be incinerated from the safety of his office."

He examined the map of the roof, "Miss Jarden, which way does this rooftop face? Which buildings are across the street from it, and is any of those tall enough to give line of sight to the Prince's rooftop?"

Adley looked at the map and then made his best guess as to the node's location from what the caitiff told him, pointing to the area.

"Damnation! I had not considered that possibility, no let us hope this woman and her child are not Nephandi I do not want to send a child to the Main Sentencing Hall and I doubt if Wolfgang could bare it if his reincarnation had Fallen." Joakim said and he looked quite concerned.

"Let's just find out, perhaps they are not. But we need to know before we offer the deal."

"Then again if there is a world there in which a Tribunal can roast our balls over an open flame that is a victory in itself the way things stands now." He muttered

He couldn't argue with that...if there was a Monday, it appeared there would be a few Tribunals around that would be ready to do just that but there would be a -Monday.-

"Everything can be created Adley with the right skill and knowledge, unfortunately that are knowledge I do not possess. I can ask my Mentor's husband he is a Archmage of Spirit, he might know how to create such materials."

"Well, I didn't mean we make it, not necessarily. But perhaps that is one way to go, of course. I meant if something very good happened in an area, wouldn't that make something in the spirit world as would a great tragedy?"

"I am a fugitive in my own society, I should not put your contact on the spot but being around while you call her, I will be right outside, unless you need me for anything Sir."

"Thank you, yes it might be better for you as well not to overhear, apologies. I will explain pertinent things for our plan of course."

The vampire rebel quickly picked up the phone and said. "Speaking, very well then do you have anything new for me?

"Yes; however first I need to let you know that I am not alone right now. We would like to speak to Tian regarding possible safeguards for his family over the phone, if that is possible?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"If I recall correctly, Abigail has promised the moon to the Prince, including magickal protections. That would, I assume, tend to include a resource that she wishes to use in the future."

"Ah...the Question then is what those protections are and if they are placed on all the Elysiums, and the Tremere Chantry or only some of them and how we bypass them and if the Nephandi have delivered their part of the bargain yet."
Isabella said and sigh.
"It seams that this is getting more and more complicated Sir."

"The Tremere made them? Hrm, this sounds complicated. I could ask my contact if her friend has seen any cats. I don't know if storming the place would be the best method to get it," he said with a thoughtful frown.

"Yes centuries ago, my Clan kidnapped members of another Clan, the Gangrel and made their captives into the Gargoyles. Clan Gangrel have never forgiven us for that, and with good reason really."
Isabella said and look down.
"Asking might be wise but if this cat is a peace hostage chances is that it is not wandering around where we can easily get to it."

"I've asked my contact to look into it as we speak but we should try to have an emergency plan ready to go. According to what I've heard, Lodin likes to watch his prisoners be incinerated from the safety of his office."

"Yes he do at that, he have his office placed just so he can watch his prisoners burn while he is still in shadows and then he have time to retreat to one of his private rooms on Elysium, probably located in the off limits section."
Isabella said and looked a bit queasy.
"Are you thinking about stealing this elder of my Clan from literary right under Prince Lodin's nose Sir?"
She asked.
"For that is one hell of a tricking plan B if that is the case if you do permit me to say so."

Adley looked at the map and then made his best guess as to the node's location from what the caitiff told him, pointing to the area.

It is not hard to find the roof in question, the top Eastward of the outcroppings on the Sears Tower.

"Let's just find out, perhaps they are not. But we need to know before we offer the deal."

"We can ask this Tian about it, but then we bave no guarantee that his reply will be an honest one."
Joakim said.
"But right now that is the best we can do and we can examine them with magick if he takes us up on our offer."

"Well, I didn't mean we make it, not necessarily. But perhaps that is one way to go, of course. I meant if something very good happened in an area, wouldn't that make something in the spirit world as would a great tragedy?"

"Yes it would, though when it comes to medical supplies tragedies tend to be more common, though I guess the site of a mass birth or a heroic saving of life might do the same."
Kristina said and nodded.

"Thank you, yes it might be better for you as well not to overhear, apologies. I will explain pertinent things for our plan of course."

"Isabella waves of your apology.
"No need for that Sir, I understand. I will be right outside if you need me."
The vampiress said before she left the room.

"Yes; however first I need to let you know that I am not alone right now.

"Very well, I assume those that are around you at the moment are people you can trust and none of them are regular human beings that should not know about the things we will be discussing."
Tyler asked.

We would like to speak to Tian regarding possible safeguards for his family over the phone, if that is possible?"

"I will ask him."
The vampire said and you hear her getting up and walking across the ground and then talking with someone quickly before she replied to you.
"The boy agrees, do you want to talk with him now and we can discuss our strategies later or do you want to address him after you have spoken with me?"
She asked.

[Warpmind]

Colin frowned, "Bugger... Then getting line of sight to the rooftop will be trickier. I suppose gaining access to a floor somewhere above the Prince's chambers is going to be tricky, as well?"
He pondered, "Another important question in regard to the promises of the Fallen is how much Prince Lodin trusts Abigail. While I can't speak for the man, I know that if I were an ancient overlord of vast power, I might be more than a little hesitant to allow a stranger whose reliability I was not yet entirely convinced of to install a brand new security system on my terrace... From what I have heard of him so far, he seems shrewd, ruthless and keen enough of mind to know the risk of letting strangers get too close..."

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