A Difficult Choice, Martha and Missing Widderslaintes IC Thread 9

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

(OOC: Continuing from IC thread 8. Colin is on his was to meet his friends for a strategy meeting while the other visitors to Chicago are discussing whatever or not to torture Jodelle their Nephandi prisoner. Meanwhile Tane is discussing with Amadeus about bringing in shapechangers to help defend Boston and showing Lily around Steelhaven. Happy gaming everyone.)

[Ashan101]

Richard impatiently paces the room after the exchange

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Francesca pours another cup of coffee and offers Richard.
"Here have something to drink."
She offers him.

[Ashan101]

Richard declines.. .with a shake of his head....and smiles slightly "Adgitated enough"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"Yes I can see that, I probably should not be drinking coffee either but, well it have been quite carousel we have been on these last few days."
Francesca said then she sigh.
"But then I guess I have gotten more rest than most since I have been wounded."
She commented.

(OOC: I might reply a bit slowly today I am going to be on a train all day to go and visit my mother for a week. I will post when I can. I might also post a little bit slower during the week I am there.)

[Ashan101]

Richard stops..... looking apologetic... "Anything i can do to assist?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"No, my physical wounds where healed by Master Nassa...now I just have to do some soul searching. I know you do not agree with my Tradition's view Dr Lee, especially given your own, but for me being that close to death only to be brought back...well it raises some questions. Physically I am fine other than some fatigue and well bad dreams, but that is to be expected."
Francesca said and offered a little smile.

[Adley]

"Several of our Masters have the ability to do so, I will ask one of them to help...I think a few of our Adepts can do it as well." Joakom said and nodded.

"Thank you."

"We should ask Colin about it, he spoke with the man, perhaps the tub boy mentioned something to him." Freddy suggested.

"That's true, I'm sure he did not have the time to tell us everything that transpired," he said with a nod. "Good thinking."

"Hum...yes there are such methods, the best is probably the Hermetic rote, frosty breath of the spoken lie since it do not directly affect the mind of the one you use it one there is less of a chance of it triggering any potential booby traps as Adjan mentions while it is quite effective, I do not know how to work that rote though."
Freddy said.

Adjan nodded. "I guess any of us can hurt the Nephandus but luckily none of us are really trained to torture, however I have some experience in forcing information out of someone though I have never had to go so far as to actually torture them."

"I don't know how to do such a rote either, but we are not alone here in the event it should come to such. The issue is that even should I do such a thing, and I am not saying I can or would, my tendencies are not particularly...subtle." Which was hardly a surprise, as he -had- been trained to take down a threat, not mete out applications of torture.

"And I do not know if that cell would stop those, the mouth on her neck is from Paradox I think but the marks on her arms are investment brands I think, not that I can be sure about it, taking precautions are wise."

"Investment brands?" he raised an eyebrow. "I did not notice that. Well, the way she talked of the spirit she summoned..." He closed his eyes and then sighed.

"I agree about the first point." Adjan said. "What compounds are you talking about by the way?" He asked then he added.

"There are drugs that I have heard that can be used, there may also be potions for a similar effect, though again...I do not know if we have the time to try to procure them, nor the knowledge to interpret such results or administer them."

"Well it do not work exactly like that, even if you have broken your leg do not mean that smashing your hand in the car door no longer hurt, we do not need to cause her the worst pain she have ever experienced, only enough to force her to talk."
Adjan said and sigh. "However she is likely to be rather hardened so if we do it...

"That is what I meant...that she might be resilient."

"The way I see it we have two threats we can use which might be effective, they would scare the crap out of me at least." The Euthanatos admitted...but it is not exactly kind threats to make." The death magus said in a serious tone of voice.

"No, they are not," he agreed with a frown. "I don't like to make empty threats...and I would not like to follow through on those," he scowled.

"yes i am a Doctor, which means i know where her nerves go for maximum pain with minimum intrusion... these creatures deserve it, i was trying to stop the thing that was summoned" Richard states

"No!" Adjan said, raising his voice a little his gray eyes darkening...the one who do it need to be able to feel compassion for the prisoner...not look at her as some creature that deserve it, no human...or no creature for that matter deserve to be tortured...even if it might at times be necessary." The Euthanatos said his eyes on Richard before he sank back into his seat. "Fuck! I can not believe we are contemplating this." He muttered sadly.

He had been about to say something, perhaps had an incredulous look on his face but Adjan cut to it better than he could have. And perhaps that was for the best; he might have felt more similarly to the doctor, just last week. Though he hoped he would at least treat a prisoner right as he was taught to do. Richard was a doctor and Adley had not taken any such oath as that. Trained to be what he was, it was perhaps not surprising that Adley would have to consider something like this, eventually. Much like Adjan, he did not like to have to do so. He sighed, rubbing his hands through his hair and then sat waiting for the argument to settle, as well as all the internal feelings and his own thoughts, until Colin came back.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"That's true, I'm sure he did not have the time to tell us everything that transpired," he said with a nod. "Good thinking."

Freddy gave a little smile at that.
"Also the boy might have mentioned something that did not seam important at the time but which have some relevance now, you never know."
She added.

"I don't know how to do such a rote either, but we are not alone here in the event it should come to such. The issue is that even should I do such a thing, and I am not saying I can or would, my tendencies are not particularly...subtle." Which was hardly a surprise, as he -had- been trained to take down a threat, not mete out applications of torture.

"Anyone can cause pain with a knife or by braking small bones."
Adjan said darkly.
"And if magick is to be used there is always rubbing the bones, Euthanatoi are taught it as a way to take someone down without harming them, by causing enough pain to make the target simply collapse."
He muttered.
"Finding a way to cause the prisoner pain is not the problem, the issue is whatever or not we should do it."

"Investment brands?" he raised an eyebrow. "I did not notice that. Well, the way she talked of the spirit she summoned..." He closed his eyes and then sighed.

"I can not be sure, but they seamed like that to me, which would make her dangerous even when restrained."
The Euthanatos said.

"There are drugs that I have heard that can be used, there may also be potions for a similar effect, though again...I do not know if we have the time to try to procure them, nor the knowledge to interpret such results or administer them."

"Potions if we can get them yes perhaps, mundane truth serums as far as I know do not work as in the movies, they are more drugs that confuse the target and then when working with them over time you can get information out of them, much like you might get information out of a happy drunk."
Adjan said and shrugged.
"Perhaps we should get the Nephandus wasted then."
Francesca suggested and Adjan smiled a little.
"I did not say it was an effective method Fran, only that it was the way it generally work, as amusing as a drunk Nephandus might be."

"That is what I meant...that she might be resilient."

"She probably is. Widderslainte are not always as hardened as Barrabi since they have not been through the Cauls in this life time but Barrabi usually can take quite a bit of punishment it seams, the question is what she is."

"No, they are not," he agreed with a frown. "I don't like to make empty threats...and I would not like to follow through on those," he scowled.

"Neither would I but I can not think of any other threats that would work, which leaves us with the options of giving up on any information gleaned from Miss Jerkins, or torturing her, that is unless your Cabalmate somehow manages to charm the Nephandus into talking, something I would not put past him, damned it the man could talk a New World Order Agent into attending a Verbena orgy."
Adjan said and grinned a little.

[Warpmind]

Colin nodded to Freddy, "See you in a few minutes then, luv."
Then he left the room and headed upstairs to the meeting.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

You find your way relatively simply here and there you meet some of Morningstar's residents, a small woman with a regal posture in a long blue dress, a rather round man in a shirt and pressed pants that walked around looking at his smart phone, a young woman with long curly hair and all black eyes like hematites, and all of them gave Colin a bit of a look since he was a stranger but also seamed polite enough and gave him a nod in greeting.

You get to a small sitting room, blue fabric furniture are strewn around a small oak table, your Chantrymates sits collected in these chairs and sofas. Francesca smiles when you enter the room.
"Ah Mr Wainwright we have been waiting for you, it seams like we yet again have need of your silver tongue."
The Eutnanatos said.
"Do you want some coffee?"

[Warpmind]

Colin nodded politely in greeting to everyone he passed, and slipped into the meeting room, "Ehhh, do you have tea? And I'm sorry I'm late to the meeting; I've been talking with miss Bergen, and Freddy is keeping an eye on her until a young girl named Anita comes to take over. That should be adequate guard here, I think... And who is it now you need me to persuade?"
His face fell a little, "You want me to interrogate the Fallen prisoner, don't you?"

His eyes suddenly widened, "Oh, bugger, I forgot to tell her... One moment, please..."
He quickly sent a text message to Freddy, ""By the way, if she asks about her father, try to deflect the issue; I refrained from telling her of his arrest, thinking it will be easier to bring her home that way. She'll be upset with me personally when she learns, and there's no reason to complicate things before we get home."

((OOC: Edited due to oopsie.))

[Adley]

Freddy gave a little smile at that. "Also the boy might have mentioned something that did not seam important at the time but which have some relevance now, you never know."

"Also true," he agreed.

He muttered. "Finding a way to cause the prisoner pain is not the problem, the issue is whatever or not we should do it."

He nodded; it was a bleak thing to consider. But better it should be than not.

"I can not be sure, but they seamed like that to me, which would make her dangerous even when restrained." The Euthanatos said.

"We should tell the security chief here."

"Neither would I but I can not think of any other threats that would work, which leaves us with the options of giving up on any information gleaned from Miss Jerkins, or torturing her, that is unless your Cabalmate somehow manages to charm the Nephandus into talking, something I would not put past him, damned it the man could talk a New World Order Agent into attending a Verbena orgy." Adjan said and grinned a little.

"With our other prisoner, the idea was to threaten him with vampire blood. I didn't agree with that, then but that is the only other thing I can think of but the situation here is not quite the same, threats of a taste of her own medicine... He shook his head though. "Christ, but I hate thinking this way."

"Ehhh, do you have tea? And I'm sorry I'm late to the meeting; I've been talking with miss Bergen, and Freddy is keeping an eye on her until a young girl named Anita comes to take over. That should be adequate guard here, I think... And who is it now you need me to persuade?" His face fell a little, "You want me to interrogate the Fallen prisoner, don't you?"

Adley was still sitting in the chair, eyes closed but not sleeping. When he heard him come into the room, he sat up again and said, "Colin," looking glad to see him. His expression was grim. "She was not forthcoming with us," he said. "The trouble is that we have nothing that she wants, and everything that she doesn't. There is no motivation for her to speak to us. The  only other options are torture, or threats of some kind and we'd rather avoid doing that for obvious--" He waited until he was done the text message and then continued, "reasons. There's something else too. She may have abilities that we don't know about. Adjan said he thought he saw investment marks on her person and she was around the Tremere. While I was with her, it seemed that she was getting information out of us, not the other way around. Like her eyes were watching everything and the way she questioned -us- was as if she was the interrogator. Like being in front of a video camera," he said, suddenly matching a sense of the feeling to what had happened. "It could be paranoia but we just don't know so do be careful what you say and do in front of her if you do choose to try. Currently she is being restrained in a magick proof room and unable to see or hear. "

He paused and then said, "I also wanted to know what happened just now, so that we can report to the chief. And there is also the call to my associate coming soon. I need to know something about Abigail, so that they can help us. We know that the group at the apartment was supposed to move around seven. They probably know something is up. Ah! And one more thing, Freddy said that there was an incoming call from a mental hospital to the phone of the man in the tub...the hospital she said was quite a horrid place. But who would he call, or get a call from, when on the run? Did he say anything when you were speaking with him?"

[Warpmind]

Colin frowned, "Another Fallen to coax into... er, pardon my ignorance, but what are investment marks? Some sort of brand to signify a pact with a spirit or something?"
He pinched the bridge of his nose, "In coming call from a mental..." His eyes widened, "That was the poor lad's Mentor, a Martha Cunningham. This is most interesting; Lisa Larson apparently told her Chicago allies that Martha Cunningham had been caught by the Traditions. What would she be doing in a mental facility? More to the point - who the hell operates a mental hospital where Nephandi can be dumped? For that matter, how the hell could Nephandi of at least Adept level be simply disposed of alive?"
He pondered, "Our lost friend said she was a healer; a specialist at manipulating flesh. Could it be that she had her Avatar taken away to feed the Caul?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin nodded politely in greeting to everyone he passed, and slipped into the meeting room, "Ehhh, do you have tea? And I'm sorry I'm late to the meeting; I've been talking with miss Bergen, and Freddy is keeping an eye on her until a young girl named Anita comes to take over. That should be adequate guard here, I think

"I did not see any tea, I think Morningstar's Security Chief just like ours are a coffee man, but I can see if I can borrow a water boiler and make some."
Francesca offered.
"Well Miss Bergen should be pretty safe here at the Chantry."
The Euthanatos added.

And who is it now you need me to persuade?"
His face fell a little, "You want me to interrogate the Fallen prisoner, don't you?"

"Well it is either that, giving up on getting anything out of her, or torturing her."
Francesca said and sipped her coffee.
"You are known to be rather goon at talking others into doing what you want I hear Mr Wainwright."

His eyes suddenly widened, "Oh, bugger, I forgot to tell her... One moment, please..."
He quickly sent a text message to Freddy, ""By the way, if she asks about her father, try to deflect the issue; I refrained from telling her of his arrest, thinking it will be easier to bring her home that way. She'll be upset with me personally when she learns, and there's no reason to complicate things before we get home."

You get a reply back from Freddy.
"Very well I think keeping things from the kid might be a mistake but I get the reason I am not going to tell her."

"We should tell the security chief here."

"Yes we should tell the Chief about the possibility that the prisoner have investments for if she do that might not be stopped by the magick on the cell."
Adjan agreed.
"He should probably be told as soon as possible."

"With our other prisoner, the idea was to threaten him with vampire blood. I didn't agree with that, then but that is the only other thing I can think of but the situation here is not quite the same, threats of a taste of her own medicine... He shook his head though. "Christ, but I hate thinking this way."

"The situation is also different in that this woman know about vampires and will probably know that vampire blood will take years to seriously damage and Avatar, so she will know the Traditions will kill it long before the blood do, so it is not much of a threat, drinking vampire blood will not really be uncomfortable in itself, yes it will make your Avatar addicted but I doubt we have the time to exploit that."
Adjan said and scratched his head.

Colin frowned, "Another Fallen to coax into... er, pardon my ignorance, but what are investment marks? Some sort of brand to signify a pact with a spirit or something?"

"Investments are one name for powers given to a person by a demon or entity of some sort, they are common among the Nephandi, both with mages and their sleeper servants, it do also happen among other groups and Traditions that do not ban Infernalists."
Adjan explained.
"They can be quite nasty...for everyone involved."

He pinched the bridge of his nose, "In coming call from a mental..." His eyes widened, "That was the poor lad's Mentor, a Martha Cunningham. This is most interesting; Lisa Larson apparently told her Chicago allies that Martha Cunningham had been caught by the Traditions. What would she be doing in a mental facility?

"I have not heard about any Nephandi being caught by anyone but us in Boston lately."
Francesca said.
"And how a Nephandus would end up in a mental hospital I have no idea, I guess the place could be a Node but if you are saying the woman was a patient, then no that is quite odd."

More to the point - who the hell operates a mental hospital where Nephandi can be dumped? For that matter, how the hell could Nephandi of at least Adept level be simply disposed of alive?"

"I doubt a sleeper mental hospital would be able to hold any mage that did not want to be there very long, not to mention an Adept, that just do not add up."
Adjan said and emptied his coffee mug.
"What do we know about this Martha Cunningham?"

He pondered, "Our lost friend said she was a healer; a specialist at manipulating flesh. Could it be that she had her Avatar taken away to feed the Caul?"

Francesca swallowed hard.
"Well that would explain why she was as a mental hospital, if her Avatar was taken from her and she was dumped somewhere, the state she would be in could easily have her put into the care of an institution...but would the Fallen turn on their own like that?"
She asked.
"Hum...if we can talk to this woman, perhaps she will be easier to get information from than our current prisoner, if she have been in a position to know anything that is."

[Warpmind]

Colin shrugged, "Don't stress it on my account, miss Mandis. I can make do without. By the way, so everyone here knows... I've refrained from telling Liv Bergen about her father's circumstances until we return to Boston. I am ready to take the fall then, but I think - and I know how cynical and shitty it is - the entirety of the rescue will go better if she remains ignorant of her father's arrest until we are back. I don't mind saying how little I look forward to earning her ire then..."
He frowned at the phone, and typed back another reply, "I know, and I agree, it is shitty, but I will tell her when we get back, so the fallout won't imperil the mission. Getting her home safe takes priority; if the cost is earning the wrath of a sweet little girl, so be it."
He pondered, "So, let us assume for the moment that those markings represent a pact with a demon or something of the sort... will the pact be affected by our tampering with those marks? For that matter, can we tamper with such markings?"
He stroked his chin, "I don't think Martha Cunningham is a patient, exactly... More like a prisoner; according to the poor lad, she had called him to warn him, and she'd sounded drugged at the time. Apparently, some orderlies dragged her from the phone..."
He grimaced, "I think the Nephandi - Larson in particular - might very well turn on anyone for a quick profit, as it were. By all accounts, the woman is unrepentant and purely malicious."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin shrugged, "Don't stress it on my account, miss Mandis. I can make do without.

"Very well Mr Wainwright. You may call me Francesca if you like, we have been working together a few times now."
The Euthanatos said and smiles.
"Do you want some coffee then or nothing?"

By the way, so everyone here knows... I've refrained from telling Liv Bergen about her father's circumstances until we return to Boston. I am ready to take the fall then, but I think - and I know how cynical and shitty it is - the entirety of the rescue will go better if she remains ignorant of her father's arrest until we are back. I don't mind saying how little I look forward to earning her ire then..."

Adjan nodded at that.
"The little lady will not be pleased this is kept from her, however I think you might be right that it will make our job in getting her to safety far easier."
The Euthanatos said.
"I am more concerned for how she will react when she learn just how deep in the mud her father have dug himself."
He said in a serious tone of voice.

He frowned at the phone, and typed back another reply, "I know, and I agree, it is shitty, but I will tell her when we get back, so the fallout won't imperil the mission. Getting her home safe takes priority; if the cost is earning the wrath of a sweet little girl, so be it."

You get a reply back from Freddy.
"Very well then. I can tell you that for now Miss Bergen's little friend have arrived and they seam to be chattering away, I will just get them some dinner and then I will be coming up to meet you and the rest."

He pondered, "So, let us assume for the moment that those markings represent a pact with a demon or something of the sort... will the pact be affected by our tampering with those marks? For that matter, can we tamper with such markings?"

"I doubt it will change things much, it would be like trying to change how a house is laid out by scribbling in the deed, the marks the way I understood it are symbols of the demonic pacts and nothing more but I might be wrong about that given that I am not a Infernalist nor a demonologist."
Adjan said and frowned.

He stroked his chin, "I don't think Martha Cunningham is a patient, exactly... More like a prisoner; according to the poor lad, she had called him to warn him, and she'd sounded drugged at the time. Apparently, some orderlies dragged her from the phone..."

"This do not sound like uncommon treatment in quite a few public clinics that serve those that do not have families and wealth to fight for their rights, mental patients being treated like prisoners are unfortunately not a thing of the past in many places."
Francesca said and sigh.

He grimaced, "I think the Nephandi - Larson in particular - might very well turn on anyone for a quick profit, as it were. By all accounts, the woman is unrepentant and purely malicious."

"Hum...I find that I like this Lisa Larson less and less every time I hear about her exploits."
Adjan said.
"I do hope we catch that woman soon...preferably alive."

[Adley]

Ehhh, do you have tea? And I'm sorry I'm late to the meeting; I've been talking with miss Bergen, and Freddy is keeping an eye on her until a young girl named Anita comes to take over. That should be adequate guard here, I think"

"I did not see any tea, I think Morningstar's Security Chief just like ours are a coffee man, but I can see if I can borrow a water boiler and make some." Francesca offered. "Well Miss Bergen should be pretty safe here at the Chantry."

"I'd rather one of ours keep an eye out for her," he sighed.

He pinched the bridge of his nose, "In coming call from a mental..." His eyes widened, "That was the poor lad's Mentor, a Martha Cunningham. This is most interesting; Lisa Larson apparently told her Chicago allies that Martha Cunningham had been caught by the Traditions. What would she be doing in a mental facility? More to the point - who the hell operates a mental hospital where Nephandi can be dumped? For that matter, how the hell could Nephandi of at least Adept level be simply disposed of alive?"
He pondered, "Our lost friend said she was a healer; a specialist at manipulating flesh. Could it be that she had her Avatar taken away to feed the Caul?"

"If she was caught unawares...drugged, or led into a trap by someone she knew," he said.

"Yes we should tell the Chief about the possibility that the prisoner have investments for if she do that might not be stopped by the magick on the cell." Adjan agreed. "He should probably be told as soon as possible."

Adley nodded and picked his phone out to make a call to him to ask him where he was.

"The situation is also different in that this woman know about vampires and will probably know that vampire blood will take years to seriously damage and Avatar, so she will know the Traditions will kill it long before the blood do, so it is not much of a threat, drinking vampire blood will not really be uncomfortable in itself, yes it will make your Avatar addicted but I doubt we have the time to exploit that.

"True," he nodded, phone tucked under his chin.

"I doubt a sleeper mental hospital would be able to hold any mage that did not want to be there very long, not to mention an Adept, that just do not add up." Adjan said and emptied his coffee mug. "What do we know about this Martha Cunningham?"

"Well that would explain why she was as a mental hospital, if her Avatar was taken from her and she was dumped somewhere, the state she would be in could easily have her put into the care of an institution...but would the Fallen turn on their own like that?"
She asked.

"Hum...if we can talk to this woman, perhaps she will be easier to get information from than our current prisoner, if she have been in a position to know anything that is."

He stroked his chin, "I don't think Martha Cunningham is a patient, exactly... More like a prisoner; according to the poor lad, she had called him to warn him, and she'd sounded drugged at the time. Apparently, some orderlies dragged her from the phone..." He grimaced, "I think the Nephandi - Larson in particular - might very well turn on anyone for a quick profit, as it were. By all accounts, the woman is unrepentant and purely malicious."

"Martha is Abigail's apprentice...It could be that she is being held there as collateral, to make Abigail comply more readily if things go wrong or she tried to run away and is being kept there," he speculated. "Her disappearance has been noted for a few weeks now, if the man in the tub was being warned, it could be that she expected him to be endangered as well. Or, like you said, more fodder for the caul to keep it alive until they can get their widderslainte."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

"I'd rather one of ours keep an eye out for her," he sighed.

"I can go, I have said my piece in this issue anyway. I do not like the idea of resorting to torture but if it is our only choice to get information from the prisoner I will agree to it, if it is done as well it is the wrong word but as decently as possible and not out of anger or hatred."
Francesca said.
"I also speak a little Latin so I should be able to communicate with Miss Bergen."
She added.
"If you prefer one of us to keep an eye on her."

"If she was caught unawares...drugged, or led into a trap by someone she knew," he said.

"Well I guest that for most mages, off course depending on their Paradigm if they where drugged enough that they could not focus and kept that way magick would be difficult."
Francesca said and twirled one of her corkscrew curls around a long thing finger.

Adley nodded and picked his phone out to make a call to him to ask him where he was.

Joakim picked up after a few rings.
"Yes how may I help you?"
He asked.

"Martha is Abigail's apprentice...It could be that she is being held there as collateral, to make Abigail comply more readily if things go wrong or she tried to run away and is being kept there," he speculated.

"That would make sense, to capture the apprentice of someone you want to control and I would not put it past Larson, even when it comes to her own kind."
Francesca said.
"The question is, if this is the case how can we use it to our advantage?"

"Her disappearance has been noted for a few weeks now, if the man in the tub was being warned, it could be that she expected him to be endangered as well. Or, like you said, more fodder for the caul to keep it alive until they can get their widderslainte."

"Hum..we could call the hospital you know, pretend to be relatives of the woman, or better yet solicitors, if the ones who run the place smell money then you can be sure they want to follow up, so if we pretend to need to talk to their patient about an inheritance perhaps she can give us some more hints about what is going on."
Francesca suggested.

[Warpmind]

Colin shook his head, "No coffee, but thank you nonetheless."
Sighing softly, he leaned against the wall, "Now, let us - for now - write Martha Cunningham out of the equation; she is in Boston, and as such not available as a piece on the game board in Chicago. To get under the skin of our captive, we need something immediately available as a bargaining chip. We may have to make a concession of some sort..."
He frowned, "Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but we have no judicial authority over the prisoner, seeing as she falls under the authority of the Chicago Tribunal, right? Which means we do not have the authority to weigh in on the issues of her Avatar flaying or execution. Which means we don't have the means to offer her a merciful death without, well... she will probably be quite aware of that detail. So, we have to find a different angle..."
He grimaced, "This is distasteful, but it has a chance... Our prisoner is presumably loyal to Abigail, right? We might be able to convince her to help us send a message to Abigail about what Lisa Larson does to Abigail's hired minions? Giving up the known location of Martha Cunningham to Abigail may well be interpreted as aiding the enemies of Ascension, but on the other hand... it could well lead to an immediate loss of, er, resources for Larson, as well as driving a personal wedge between the two harridans..."
He glanced around the room, "Your thoughts on that?"

[Adley]

"I can go, I have said my piece in this issue anyway. I do not like the idea of resorting to torture but if it is our only choice to get information from the prisoner I will agree to it, if it is done as well it is the wrong word but as decently as possible and not out of anger or hatred." Francesca said. "I also speak a little Latin so I should be able to communicate with Miss Bergen." She added. "If you prefer one of us to keep an eye on her

"Thank you...here, let me get your number and vice versa," he said.

Joakim picked up after a few rings. "Yes how may I help you?" He asked.

"Are you in a space where you can talk? Or shall I meet you somewhere? I just need a moment but it is urgent."

"That would make sense, to capture the apprentice of someone you want to control and I would not put it past Larson, even when it comes to her own kind." Francesca said. "The question is, if this is the case how can we use it to our advantage?"

"There is at least more motivation potential there than in our other case."

"Hum..we could call the hospital you know, pretend to be relatives of the woman, or better yet solicitors, if the ones who run the place smell money then you can be sure they want to follow up, so if we pretend to need to talk to their patient about an inheritance perhaps she can give us some more hints about what is going on." Francesca suggested.

"Interesting idea, one we could try without much loss, I believe." He nodded.

He grimaced, "This is distasteful, but it has a chance... Our prisoner is presumably loyal to Abigail, right? We might be able to convince her to help us send a message to Abigail about what Lisa Larson does to Abigail's hired minions? Giving up the known location of Martha Cunningham to Abigail may well be interpreted as aiding the enemies of Ascension, but on the other hand... it could well lead to an immediate loss of, er, resources for Larson, as well as driving a personal wedge between the two harridans..." He glanced around the room, "Your thoughts on that?"

"I don't think she would believe us if it were an idle carrot. The punishment for aiding a Nephandi in any way is not pleasant...well, I happen to now know that beheading is one of them. Also, I do not -want-to assist Abigail in her plots, even peripherally, so I do not want to act on such notion," he said flatly. "I want her brought to justice as well, though Larson is a more pressing threat at present...we think at least."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin shook his head, "No coffee, but thank you nonetheless."

Francesca nodded to that and settled back down into her seat to finish her coffee.

Sighing softly, he leaned against the wall, "Now, let us - for now - write Martha Cunningham out of the equation; she is in Boston, and as such not available as a piece on the game board in Chicago. To get under the skin of our captive, we need something immediately available as a bargaining chip. We may have to make a concession of some sort..."

"I agree, however do we have anything we can use as a bargaining chip with our prisoner."
Adjan said.

He frowned, "Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but we have no judicial authority over the prisoner, seeing as she falls under the authority of the Chicago Tribunal, right? Which means we do not have the authority to weigh in on the issues of her Avatar flaying or execution. Which means we don't have the means to offer her a merciful death without, well... she will probably be quite aware of that detail. So, we have to find a different angle..."

"Killing her could get us accused of cooperating with the Nephandi...and we do not want that."
Adjan said and sigh.
"We have no direct authority but we did capture her so we might be able to influence her treatment and whatever or not she is also sentenced to an execution but Gilgul...well that is what the Traditions do to the Fallen we can not stop that."
He said and shuddered.
"Yeah she seams pretty aware of this fact yes, which is a problem for us."

He grimaced, "This is distasteful, but it has a chance... Our prisoner is presumably loyal to Abigail, right? We might be able to convince her to help us send a message to Abigail about what Lisa Larson does to Abigail's hired minions? Giving up the known location of Martha Cunningham to Abigail may well be interpreted as aiding the enemies of Ascension, but on the other hand... it could well lead to an immediate loss of, er, resources for Larson, as well as driving a personal wedge between the two harridans..."

"It might be frowned upon but I doubt we would be sentenced for anything for doing such a thing but we might, it would be a very dark legal gray."
Adjan said and sigh.
"It could work but without ourselves knowing what Larson do with Abigail's people there is a limit to what we can offer, I mean first of all why would Jerkins believe us, also how should we let her contact Abigail? She would know we want to take Abigail down without evidence to give her that Larson is harming their people, how are you going to convince her?"
He commented.

He glanced around the room, "Your thoughts on that?"

"I do not want to do anything that get close to cooperating with the Nephandi, I have no desire to become number seventy six on a very special list to say it like that and join our Fallen prisoner in the Main Sentencing Hall...other than that the plan might work...if and I do stress the if here we can convince Jerkins that something is up in Boston, the problem is convincing her, and especially since we can only guess ourselves at what Larson might be doing with the missing Nephandi."
Francesca said and looked rather concerned.

"Thank you...here, let me get your number and vice versa," he said.

Francesca nodded she read up her phone number for Adley to put into his phone.
"No problem just do not decide to break to many Protocols while I am gone."
She said with a grin.

"Are you in a space where you can talk? Or shall I meet you somewhere? I just need a moment but it is urgent."

"I can talk, I am in my office what can I help you with Mr Roth Hicks?"
Joakim asked.

"There is at least more motivation potential there than in our other case."

Adjan nodded at that.

"Interesting idea, one we could try without much loss, I believe." He nodded.

"If we pick up a cheap burner phone the worst case is that we will not get anywhere, at best we get some more information."
Francesca said as she put her coffee cup down and prepared to go to keep watch over Liv Bergen.

"I don't think she would believe us if it were an idle carrot. The punishment for aiding a Nephandi in any way is not pleasant...well, I happen to now know that beheading is one of them.

"Beheading is not what worry me most of potential punishments for aiding the Nephandi."
Adjan said glumly.
"However I also have the concern that yes our prisoner might not believe us, we need to have something more concrete to offer if we are going to use warning her Mistress as a carrot to get her to talk, and besides it might defeat the purpose for then she can also warn Abigail that we are coming for her."

Also, I do not -want-to assist Abigail in her plots, even peripherally, so I do not want to act on such notion," he said flatly. "I want her brought to justice as well, though Larson is a more pressing threat at present...we think at least."

"Well if we get Abigail to turn against Larson we gain an advantage against our most pressing enemy."
Adjan said and sigh.
"But helping the Nephandi...even slightly, there is a reason why it is illegal, the idea of doing so even in such a small way make me uneasy and not only because of the potential consequences."

[Warpmind]

Colin nodded, "I had no intention of letting the prisoner free to contact Abigail... My thought was to get her to tell us how we could send Abigail a message, essentially sowing discord between the two leaders. Obviously, we can't trust neither the prisoner nor any of the other Fallen, but we might be able to milk her loyalty and spite a bit. And I know, it's not a good idea. It is a desperate fallback plan unless we can come up with anything safer and preferable."
He sighed, then frowned, "Did anyone check the prisoner for trackers? Liv Bergen had a small subdermal chip; it might not be entirely implausible the Fallen use those on their own, to go under the magical radar..."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Colin nodded, "I had no intention of letting the prisoner free to contact Abigail... My thought was to get her to tell us how we could send Abigail a message, essentially sowing discord between the two leaders.

"I would love discord between the Nephandi of Chicago and Boston, but contacting a Nephandus is rather risky and not just from a legal point of view."
Adjan said and scratched his head.
"It might be worth it if we can gain a large advantage but at the same time we get to the problem of how do we make the prisoners actually believe us, and we also do not know what is happening ourselves, so what should we tell her?"

Obviously, we can't trust neither the prisoner nor any of the other Fallen, but we might be able to milk her loyalty and spite a bit. And I know, it's not a good idea. It is a desperate fallback plan unless we can come up with anything safer and preferable."

"If it could be done perhaps, but I would like to know a bit more about the larger picture before committing to such a crazy plan, and only one of us should do it and the others should not be to involved for...well if the Traditions react badly it is better that one of us get arrested than all of us."
The Euthanatos said he looks quite concerned.
"I would say torturing the woman is far safer though."

He sighed, then frowned, "Did anyone check the prisoner for trackers? Liv Bergen had a small subdermal chip; it might not be entirely implausible the Fallen use those on their own, to go under the magical radar..."

"Damned it! No I do not think we did that."
Adjan swore.
"We need to check her for one as soon as possible...fuck how could we have missed something like that."
He muttered angrily at himself.

[Adley]

"I do not want to do anything that get close to cooperating with the Nephandi, I have no desire to become number seventy six on a very special list to say it like that and join our Fallen prisoner in the Main Sentencing Hall...other than that the plan might work...if and I do stress the if here we can convince Jerkins that something is up in Boston, the problem is convincing her, and especially since we can only guess ourselves at what Larson might be doing with the missing Nephandi."
Francesca said and looked rather concerned

"I tend to agree here. Also, I'm still not unconvinced she's not collecting information on us, which could disadvantage us aside from all the other ramifications."

Francesca nodded she read up her phone number for Adley to put into his phone. "No problem just do not decide to break to many Protocols while I am gone." She said with a grin.

He told her his phone number, in case she needed to contact him.

"I can talk, I am in my office what can I help you with Mr Roth Hicks?" Joakim asked.

"In our discussion it came up that our guest may have made some investments," he said, hoping he would get what he was talking about without having to detail it further.

If we pick up a cheap burner phone the worst case is that we will not get anywhere, at best we get some more information."
Francesca said as she put her coffee cup down and prepared to go to keep watch over Liv Bergen.

"Good idea, Freddy can probably help with that too."

"Well if we get Abigail to turn against Larson we gain an advantage against our most pressing enemy." Adjan said and sigh. "But helping the Nephandi...even slightly, there is a reason why it is illegal, the idea of doing so even in such a small way make me uneasy and not only because of the potential consequences."

"Yes, beheading is the least thing, of course. I don't want to do it," he said repeated. "Though we have an option to try something without much loss, I think that might be a good way to see if there's any profit in perusing the Martha situation."

He sighed, then frowned, "Did anyone check the prisoner for trackers? Liv Bergen had a small subdermal chip; it might not be entirely implausible the Fallen use those on their own, to go under the magical radar..."

"Damned it! No I do not think we did that." Adjan swore. "We need to check her for one as soon as possible...fuck how could we have missed something like that." He muttered angrily at himself.

"Shit; I did not. I knew there was something," he grabbed his phone again.

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