Re: Downtime planning thread.

[Nicole Bouchard]

Does Serge know how to use industrial spray-guns?

Anyway, the cushion full of cash raises the [general] question of 'what do Chantries do with "spoils of war"?' To the best of my knowledge, MtA never really mentions this. However, with my ST hat on for a second I'm thinking they may operate variants of 'Prize Money' - that when items are 'acquired' it's divvied up between the Chantry itself and the finders.

However, as ever this is Great One's call, not mine. Plus, you might have already established this before my arrival...

[Jeremy Silverstein]

Does Serge know how to use industrial spray-guns?

Serge probably thinks he can. After all how hard can it be .

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

I think it depends on the Chantry in question, from the Chantry never takes money or resources as spoils of war to they take it all and use all for the Chantry collectively to whoever find something keep what they find. I think Steelhaven will probably take half if they have used resources to get something, so if they have granted Tass to the mission, weapons, time and coordination, and whoever find something keep the other half if it is safe to keep. If someone do something as an individual and without using the Chantry's resources they keep what they find, again as long as it do not A violate the Protocols or B put the Chantry in danger, yes I am looking at the Nephandi body parts Tane brought home. Smaller things found which do not have a great value the finder keep, again under the above conditions, so if that Technocrat you just shot had a great gun and a cool lighter on his person you keep it if you want it, but with large sums of money the Chantry takes half if they invested allot into the mission.

I am pretty sure Serge can do so yes.

[Nicole Bouchard]

Do I really want to know why Tane wanted the body parts?

The 'Prize rules' seem fair enough - if they 'took it all', there's be no incentive to *cough* acquire resources. And as Nicole has pointed out, doing missions does involve expenses.

Question is; what about the non-cash acquisitions? After all, that Caddie has a book value of around $15k, and there was that jewellery...

[Warpmind]

No, you don't really want to know why Tane wanted the body parts. Whether in or out of character.

As for the jewelry, that's probably going to be a bit risky to just pawn - I'd bet most of it is insured and/or heirlooms. Colin can probably help keep an eye on whether the stuff gets reported stolen, though. Likely best to keep it out of circulation until any potential heat dies down.

[Nicole Bouchard]

Well, some of it might have scrap value - Colin could melt down, re-set jewels and the like, right?

Hmm, what to spend the cash on? I think Great One's going to regret it when I send her 100+ PMs talking about the stuff Nick's buying... *smirks*

[Warpmind]

Yeah, Colin could likely take care of the shape of things - he's a specialist silversmith, though, so any gold might look a little rougher than his usual work.

Scrap value of gold and silver is pretty much negligible, though, and gemstones, hah, diamonds lose, what, about 90% of their value upon sale?

Also, I recommend investing in socks. You can never have too many comfortable socks.

[Nicole Bouchard]

How about casting the gold into bullets so they can go Corax-hunting?

A lot of pawn shops pay 'scrap value' for jewellery anyway, and Colin would have to buy in the material anyway. So no real 'loss'.

Or they could just flog it at Horizon. To someone who never goes to Boston...

As for spending... heh, I've got a few ideas for that. One of them might involve another tattoo...

[Adley]

You would lose most of the value on diamonds that don't have their certifications, it would look pretty shady too. Most diamonds have those number inscriptions right on them from a laser, again making them hard to pawn and can get you into hot water since each one is unique and if it's reported they can make a match. Probably some magii could do something about that too though, forgery and matching certificates. (Corax are too cool to hunt, plus rather have them as allies.)

[Nicole Bouchard]

The laser inscriptions only started being standard in - I believe - the 1970s. Older stones only got them when they got officially certified. Personally, I'd say there would be a bigger risk that the stuff was stolen in the first place. Lastly, a huge % of what is paid for jewellery etc is markup anyway; you see this now in 'unpopular' items such as cigarette cases, hat-pins and napkin-rings.

If money was the issue, the effort of documentation forgery would be [I suspect] better applied to the ghoul's Cadillac.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

They have not met any Corax yet however many mages use gold in their rituals so it have a value there.

For items I would say it depends, there are no hard and fast rules for this, but the thing is keeping a Chantry going costs money an most magi know they can do more as a Chantry than always looking out for number one. Mostly we have the same that the Chantry takes half and the finders get half, if the Chantry have used allot of resources on it and the finders keep the things if they where working alone. However with a thing that can not just be divided up then the Deacon Council will decide on a case by case basis if there is a conflict.

Jewelry often do not have allot of resale value really, especially not diamonds since they are kept artificially inflated, but the diamonds can be used for spell components.

[Adley]

If it doesn't have certification I think documents of ownership such as heirlooms passed down in wills and stuff do count for estate stuff but I could be wrong. But of course a huge % is markup, and also certain makers are more well known than others. The group doesn't have a lot of it's own cash, as cabal and they're going to Horizon with paltry funds. Basically, leaning on Adley's mentor  since he's giving them a place to stay due to the trials and probably won't let them starve. Anything beyond that that and travel by the ship that they want though is pretty much on them to figure out how to pay for, though they did talk about how to exchange money (and the weird Horizon money system). The other system of payment popular with Hermetics are favors, and those get expensive in far worse ways than being financially broke.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Jeffry inherited a house on Horizon from his mother, most of his resources as he do not work in sleeper society, comes from renting this house out to visitors on Horizon, which is something he can earn quite a bit on, and also the Chantry keep him with room and board since he put in so many hours as a Security Chief, he also have some meager savings with the bank on Horizon. He have reserved the house for the duration of the trial so the group will have room over their head, and he will make sure they are fed, anything else each member will have to arrange for themselves, other than transportation, which the Chantry will cover, and they can not do that often, Tass to fuel an Umbral ship is expensive.

[Adley]

That's what I figured, more or less but I didn't know he was renting the house. Smart man.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

He do not live in it and housing on Horizon are expensive, so he can earn a pretty penny on renting it out minus a small payment to the person who arrange the whole thing for him and act as caretaker for the house.

[Nicole Bouchard]

Well, Nick would argue that the costs of fuel for the ship would be almost identical whether it contained only one person or thirty - and as the journey was being done anyway [for the trial], the 'extra costs' for ride-alongs is almost nil. [Unless I'm wrong on that, which is possible]. Ditto with the housing costs, unless the Chief wouldn't mind staying there while renting visitors were also there.

As mentioned before, as someone mentioned to her they like to barter for stuff, Nicole might put together a suitcase of 'stuff' to trade. She'll ask around beforehand with folks familiar with Horizon to what is much more expensive there than on Earth. She might make a few little things too. But I'll deal with that just before we leave for Horizon IC.

With the Chantry finances, I could imagine the Founder(s) sorted out much of this long ago. Say, shares in an investment fund where the interest/dividends/whatever plugs the gap between the income from apartment rentals and the [padded] costs. It's why quite often Chantries/Constructs lurk behind businesses, charitable concerns or non-profits [such as research institutes, libraries, museums etc] - not just as cover, but also to piggyback on it to save costs. Plus, as Serge pointed out IC with Cava - even the Joker was scared of the IRS. The 'official story' will need to add up somehow. [No need to answer 'how', Great One; we're not playing 'Adventures of Tax-Collectors' or anything!]

[Warpmind]

Yeah, fudging the jewelry isn't going to be a big problem for Colin - he can perfectly well read the fine engravings on diamonds, after all, and "restoring" older pieces into something unrecognizable is fairly easy to do under the radar.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

That is why so many are going for various reasons to use the space in the ship while they are going and as for housing yes off course but the house is not that big there is a limit to how many it can comfortably house. That however do not mean the Chantry can afford more than a roof to sleep under when on Horizon and basic food everything else the ones going will have to pay for themselves.

I think probably earth snacks would be more expensive as they would be harder to get. And you do have the star trek issue with hand made things being more valued because most things on Horizon are simply manifested with magick so yes selling some things from Earth might earn Nicole some spending money.

Steelhaven have a small fund started by George Steelhaven and the interests from it do help along with apartment rental but that do not mean they have much more than what they need to keep things going. Now that they have a working infirmary they can see patients who might not want to go to a mundane doctor and earn a bit on that as well, and since they have two Nodes they can sell Tass in a pinch but they would prefer not to do that. Steelhaven is not rich.

[Warpmind]

And Colin's going to propose that the Chantry ought to make a few small investments in ice cream shops and the like, not for serious profit, but to strengthen the proverbial soul of the city - urban improvement and the like on a subtler level. He might wind up finding the Chantry's resources are a bit too snug to justify that.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Steelhaven might not have the resources for that. Narim might though he actually have quite a bit of money.

[Nicole Bouchard]

Steelhaven might, actually; if they sold a bit of the 'fund investments' and re-deployed the capital. Problem is that they may not go for it due to a) needing that profit and b) may increase the paper-trails in the Mundie world.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Yes they could if they sold all their funds and left themselves without money to run the Chantry but they are not going to do that for a feel good investment in an ice cream shop.

[Warpmind]

Which means that Colin will have to argue the investment as investing in the literal soul of Boston, rather than as a "feelgood investment" - perhaps make a shell company to invest in various small businesses to ensure they stay in operation to serve their local communities, as opposed to large, soulless corporations that see people as numbers.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

Steelhaven still need to pay the gas bill, have basic repairs done and all of those thing investing in that store would involve raising everyone's rent in order to pay the bills afterward, and there is no money for a shell company, there are not that much more money in the box than what is needed to run the Chantry, handle emergencies and generally keep things going, there are not thousands and thousands of dollars to invest in various little businesses, the money just is not there.

[Warpmind]

Which is understandable enough.

But individuals like Narim might be persuaded to contribute to such an effort; not necessarily only members of Steelhaven Hall, either.

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