Re: Little Moments Between Steptember and November, Meetings and Endings IC Thread 30

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Cabal Meeting]

"Which is exactly my argument, the old might then resort to using an antennae, but younger folks are far more likely to just use one of the illegal options."
Bruce declared.

"Hey! It might be illegal but you don't have to say that. Makes me feel like a criminal." Serge said with a wry grin.

"It is fairly new, Miss Rozzo made it, the garden is pretty neat though you should take a look up there at some point."
The Orphan said with a smile.

"There's still so much of this place I need to explore. The ritual rooms, the garage, the other miscellaneous rooms this giant place has." Serge said with a sigh. "Guess the roof garden will have to go on the list as well. That means stairs though....ugh why doesn't this place have elevators."

(OOC: Going to the Library with Kyle early in the morning sounds like a fun scene to do next. Serge does actually need to visit the rest of the chantry plus he got a few books that Kyle might be interested in.)

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Cabal Meeting]

"Hey! It might be illegal but you don't have to say that. Makes me feel like a criminal." Serge said with a wry grin.

"Would you rather I like Serge?"
Bruce said and he raised and eyebrow.
"You are technically speaking a criminal so am I for that matter it is hardly legal for me to build my forge in that abandoned junkyard, some laws I can honestly say I ignore, but I am not going to lie about it!"

"There's still so much of this place I need to explore. The ritual rooms, the garage, the other miscellaneous rooms this giant place has." Serge said with a sigh. "Guess the roof garden will have to go on the list as well. That means stairs though....ugh why doesn't this place have elevators."

"Because elevators cost money to install and this is a old building."
Bruce said and shrugged.
"And I hardly think walking up a few stairs are going to kill you kid."

[Serge] (Steelhaven, going to the library with Kyle.)

It was early in the morning after your first night at Steelhaven, many of the residents where already up though by the time you got up, you could hear talking in the hallways and someone chanting nearby, the sounds where similar to the ones you where used to from Westchapel. Soon where the appointed time where you where meeting Kyle to go to the library, and perhaps get some breakfast as well, once you got up, showered and got dressed.

[Adley]

[Cabal Meeting]

He frowned, "That is... true, she did not deserve it. However, if that had not happened, there would be information we would not have otherwise attained. Victory always demands a price, and in this case, she paid the lion's share... Going back to change the events of that Thursday might be possible, but I would potentially risk losing the battles on Sunday."

"I would not go back in time and change things but if I had been told we had to sacrifice Bee to win then screw that then I would protect her there and then, I will not let her get hurt again, not for any reason."
The Artificer said in a huff.

"It's easiest to say that now, when we cannot change things. Let's not dwell on that..."

"That should not be to much of a problem, we can just wear coats or for that matter cook the food over an barbecue and then go inside to eat."
Bruce protested.

"Alright, but I draw the line at snow," he said, with a tired smile. "Not that I would expect that for a while yet."

"Whoa Whoa whoa. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up." Serge said rapidly, repeating his words for emphasis. "Roof Garden? We have a roof garden! Why did no one tell me about that!"

"It is fairly new, Miss Rozzo made it, the garden is pretty neat though you should take a look up there at some point."
The Orphan said with a smile.

He smiled. "It's fall, so leaves are dropping and soon the cold will come but it is still beautiful and a nice place to meditate. I like to go there when I need to think but have been indoors too long."

"There's still so much of this place I need to explore. The ritual rooms, the garage, the other miscellaneous rooms this giant place has." Serge said with a sigh. "Guess the roof garden will have to go on the list as well. That means stairs though....ugh why doesn't this place have elevators."

"Because elevators cost money to install and this is a old building."
Bruce said and shrugged.
"And I hardly think walking up a few stairs are going to kill you kid.

"Perish the thought," he said, glancing at Serge.

He nodded, "I'm sure it would be quite good if you soaked up the mood of the dinner while eating, and kept that fresh in mind for painting later. Obviously, some photos of the evening will be in order. I can't promise any pizza, though, but a few roasts will be likely, and perhaps a few extinct recipes if the Chief approves of the grocery list from Horizon to rummage for herbs and spices that are no longer found on Earth. With a little luck, I might even be able to serve up a few plates of stuffed mice; I had them recommended to me this past weekend as a long-forgotten delicacy."

"What are they stuffed with? The extinct herbs and spices?" Serge asked curiously.

"Call me modern but I'd rather the tass-infused wine than the stuffed mice..." He made a face.

He nodded, swallowing hard, "Thank you... Adley, you're likely still not entirely come down from the combat high yet. When you do... if you suddenly feel yourself back in battle at the sound of an exhaust pipe going off, or the sudden flash of light reflected off a glass door swinging open, seek help right away, don't try to ignore it; it won't go away..."

"I'm just not going to know when it will happen then? It will just happen...that is hard...I have to teach classes. Drive." He frowned. "Thank you for the advice, though I think you would be the first person I might call..."


[Avatar Restoration Discussion, Cita's apartment]

"I see little point in such a test, yes it hurt the host just as much if their Avatar is hurt when the Avatar is pulled out of the soul as when it is inside of it, however testing this on a number of people, what on earth will that do for our case?"
Cita asked and she gave you a very confused look.

"It will hurt the host. When Mrs Carlyle's avatar was...out of her body, so to speak, I was able to use a spell that hurt it due to it's nature of being spliced with a lower spiritual being. Using a spirit-based magick on it had indeed hurt it, and we heard her cry out."

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

'Interview? Yeah, good enough; got the job, yes?' Nicole replied, nodding. 'Guy's a bit confused on how to handle me, mind...'

"Congratulations on getting the job." He raised an eyebrow at the last part. "Full time shifts?"

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

Mosfatt nodded at that then he left the room and waited for a while before he came back in. "I heard your voice, even though the Forces part of the spell the Entropy component garbled so I could not make out the words the gods be praised."

"Good, and thank you again I do not mean to be a bother."

"I think perhaps I baffled the horse with my incompetence." The vampire said sounding amused. "Hum...one day, before the war, we went for a ride, I used a saddle that time, you had spent months developing a spell in your lab and we where going to the sea to test it out, sending it out over th water where it would do no harm, that was a good day, and that spell you created where magnificent, perhaps a painting from that day." You did remember, you had created a spell to send a spiral of flames, like a wheel, with a hard core of air flying towards the enemy, at the end of the day as the sun went down you and Carmon where sending the spinning flame wheels out over the ocean, competing in who could send them the farthest, laughing and just enjoying some harmless fun with your magick

"The horse forgave you, especially when you decided to use a saddle again," he said with a faint smile. He listened to Carmon and saw it almost like a dream appearing before his eyes. He nodded. "Yes, that was a good time. That spell would be much more difficult to accomplish today...you know, I don't think I've ever cast any magick in this life for fun. Of course, we were practicing as well, that was the point, but it had been fun," he mused. "I remember the ocean, instead of trying to skip stones, seeing who could reach the furthest with the spell." He smiled a little. "Yes, something from that day then."

"I would not ask you to send the letter if I thought Sophia would then become a danger to you Amicus."
The old Tremere assured you.

He nodded. "You can't blame me for being wary. Even if I did not think that /you/ thought it dangerous...sometimes, danger comes anyway it seems."

ou had a fleeting memory of a tall, thin man, with pale, graying hair who waited just long enough for the tent flap to be closed before he wrapped his arms around you, kissing you passionatly, it had been a hard battle and you where both covered in sweat, you had nearly died twice but this man reminded you that there where good reasons to fight for life and that life could be gone tomorrow so it was best to enjoy it while you could.
"Yes I think he did, and I am glad Ernje had him."

He blinked, and a flush crept over his face as he suddenly remembered who he was talking about and the rush of /almost died, again/ mixed with the greeting he received. Then he scratched at the side of his face and gave a slight smile. "You were always good to us, you saved his life so many times...without you he would have died, maybe he would not have made it through his damnable apprenticeship. Or if he had, he would have been a very different man. So we thank you, for being our friend and we will remember you that way forever."

You felt Carmon's cold flesh though the gloves as you cleaned his face up, when you wiped around his mouth you heard a soft, pained sound reminding you of how Matty Carlyle had ripped Carmon's fangs out. You got it cleaned up though and looking decent.
"Thank you."
The conjured voice whispered proudly.
"I was a Magus of the Order once I should die looking somewhat dignified."

"Sorry," he muttered as he hit his mouth. A toothless vampire, defanged...cruel. This way, he couldn't even eat in the way he normally would, not that he wanted to bear those thoughts much either, considering what 'food' actually was for a vampire. "You were, amicus." He patted his arm, made sure all his clothing were in order and hair as much as possible. He was a corpse about to be cremated, one that could still speak and recall him, one that begged for death. It struck him quite suddenly hard what was going to happen soon but he didn't want to start to cry - he'd just cleaned the man up and he couldn't bear to make Carmon cry again. He bundled up the gloves and napkins. He supposed it would be best to dispose of them with his body, it was his blood. He tucked them into Carmon's pocket or nearby where the flames would take them with them. "I will ask the other man you saw in here to witness your wishes. Please tell him what you'd like to happen, as well as to your remains so we have a witness. Then, I shall go try to make everything ready as best I can. You have been waiting too long, I will try not to make you wait any longer than necessary."

// ugh, I've done that, I hit the back button of my mouse against my laptop a lot >. <

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Cabal Meeting]

"Would you rather I like Serge?"
Bruce said and he raised and eyebrow.
"You are technically speaking a criminal so am I for that matter it is hardly legal for me to build my forge in that abandoned junkyard, some laws I can honestly say I ignore, but I am not going to lie about it!"

"I'm too young for jail though." Serge said chuckling, obvious that he was joking around. "Honestly I don't really care. Most people I know don't like to acknowledge it even though they know everyone else does it."

"Because elevators cost money to install and this is a old building."
Bruce said and shrugged.
"And I hardly think walking up a few stairs are going to kill you kid."

"Perish the thought," he said, glancing at Serge.

"True....watch, I'm gonna learn how to teleport. Then I'll never have to use stairs again!" Serge said with an odd amount of passion in his voice.

(OOC: Another trick I've learned for those pesky situations. If you click on the preview button it'll take you to a new page where it'll show you a preview of your post while still allowing you to edit it. If you accidentally go to another page, you can simply click the back button [or in Strife's case the forward button] and it'll take you back to the preview page where your post will still remain.)

[Going to Library]

It was early in the morning after your first night at Steelhaven, many of the residents where already up though by the time you got up, you could hear talking in the hallways and someone chanting nearby, the sounds where similar to the ones you where used to from Westchapel. Soon where the appointed time where you where meeting Kyle to go to the library, and perhaps get some breakfast as well, once you got up, showered and got dressed.

Serge woke up painfully, having stayed awake late into the night watching various heist movies on a whim. He groaned as he rose out of bed and looked around his room, a look of confusion on his face before remembering, "Right, I moved chantries. Fuck I need to fix this place up."

He got out of bed and stretched, showered, and got dressed, putting on a T-shirt with iron man's signature arc reactor emblazoned on the chest and some jeans that he found laying around. He took one of his sketchbook, this time a smaller one about the size of a notebook, as well as the rune book he had gotten from Ulv and the Elements book he had gotten from Master Steelhaven.

"Let's see. Kyle or breakfast. Breakfast or Kyle." he said to himself as he exited his room. "Ehhhm, food is for the weak. To Kyle!" he pronounced pointing in a direction he hoped led to the Library where he would meet the young mage.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Cabal Meeting]

"I'm too young for jail though." Serge said chuckling, obvious that he was joking around. "Honestly I don't really care. Most people I know don't like to acknowledge it even though they know everyone else does it."

"You are not most people, and most would like to lie for themselves, I do not want such self delusions though, I know some things are illegal and I admit to doing them with no regrets."
Bruce said and frowned.

"True....watch, I'm gonna learn how to teleport. Then I'll never have to use stairs again!" Serge said with an odd amount of passion in his voice.

Bruce giggled a little at that.
"Ah well I am sure your heart will love that getting no exercise what so ever."
He added dryly.

"It's easiest to say that now, when we cannot change things. Let's not dwell on that..."

Bruce nodded he looked rather unhappy about it though.

"Alright, but I draw the line at snow," he said, with a tired smile. "Not that I would expect that for a while yet."

"Okey I am not going to drag you up to the roof to barbecue in the snow."
Bruce said then he grinned.
"Cocoa made over an open flame though are delicious."

He smiled. "It's fall, so leaves are dropping and soon the cold will come but it is still beautiful and a nice place to meditate. I like to go there when I need to think but have been indoors too long."

"Yeah the garden is nice."
Bruce said.
"And you are right Adley it is a nice place to meditate and it will be even nicer once Miss Rozzo's plants return for spring and grow up nice and strong."

"Call me modern but I'd rather the tass-infused wine than the stuffed mice..." He made a face.

"What he said."
Bruce declared and pointed at Adley.

[Avatar Restoration Discussion, Cita's apartment]

"It will hurt the host. When Mrs Carlyle's avatar was...out of her body, so to speak, I was able to use a spell that hurt it due to it's nature of being spliced with a lower spiritual being. Using a spirit-based magick on it had indeed hurt it, and we heard her cry out."

"Indeed, Branding as well happens after the Avatar have been pulled out the host's soul, Gilgul as well for that matter it is much harder to affect an Avatar as long as it is snugly sitting insie the host soul and both of those things are definitely painful for the host."
Cita said and she frowned.
"Excruciatingly painful."

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"Good, and thank you again I do not mean to be a bother."

"Oh no problem trying out something new is always interesting."
Mosfatt said.
"Well I will go and give you two some privacy then, I will be right outside."
The Akashic said before he left the small basement room again.

"The horse forgave you, especially when you decided to use a saddle again," he said with a faint smile. He listened to Carmon and saw it almost like a dream appearing before his eyes. He nodded. "Yes, that was a good time. That spell would be much more difficult to accomplish today...you know, I don't think I've ever cast any magick in this life for fun. Of course, we were practicing as well, that was the point, but it had been fun," he mused. "I remember the ocean, instead of trying to skip stones, seeing who could reach the furthest with the spell." He smiled a little. "Yes, something from that day then."

"I am glad he forgave me."
Carmon said sounding amused.
"And something from that day would be nice."
He said then he was quiet for a while before speaking again.
"I know it is more difficult now, that is what Tremere the Founder foresaw, that is why he tried to create a new lichdom ritual, to preserve magick, he was terrified of it one day leaving the world leaving a cold, logical world behind."

He nodded. "You can't blame me for being wary. Even if I did not think that /you/ thought it dangerous...sometimes, danger comes anyway it seems."

"I do not blame you Amicus take what precautions you feel is necessary, this is a dangerous world."
The old Tremere said.

He blinked, and a flush crept over his face as he suddenly remembered who he was talking about and the rush of /almost died, again/ mixed with the greeting he received. Then he scratched at the side of his face and gave a slight smile. "You were always good to us, you saved his life so many times...without you he would have died, maybe he would not have made it through his damnable apprenticeship. Or if he had, he would have been a very different man. So we thank you, for being our friend and we will remember you that way forever."

"We grew up together at the same Covenant, we where like brothers off course I would help him, Ernje saves my life more times than I could count as well, we had one another's back that be against a raging Diedne Druid or against his Mentor...we kept one another alive."
Carmon said and he gave you a fond look.

"Sorry," he muttered as he hit his mouth. A toothless vampire, defanged...cruel. This way, he couldn't even eat in the way he normally would, not that he wanted to bear those thoughts much either, considering what 'food' actually was for a vampire. "You were, amicus." He patted his arm, made sure all his clothing were in order and hair as much as possible. He was a corpse about to be cremated, one that could still speak and recall him, one that begged for death. It struck him quite suddenly hard what was going to happen soon but he didn't want to start to cry - he'd just cleaned the man up and he couldn't bear to make Carmon cry again. He bundled up the gloves and napkins. He supposed it would be best to dispose of them with his body, it was his blood. He tucked them into Carmon's pocket or nearby where the flames would take them with them. "I will ask the other man you saw in here to witness your wishes. Please tell him what you'd like to happen, as well as to your remains so we have a witness. Then, I shall go try to make everything ready as best I can. You have been waiting too long, I will try not to make you wait any longer than necessary."

"Yes...I was..."
Carmon repeated then he was quiet as you cleaned him up when you asked him to repeat his wishes to Mosfatt he spoke again, he looked terrified now as death approached.
"Very well, I will repeat my wishes to him so we have a witness and time have a different meaning for me, but I have to admit that...I would like this to be over as soon as possible."
He said in a terrified tone of voice.

(OOC: Well that is brilliant actually I will remember that trick.)

[Adley]

"True....watch, I'm gonna learn how to teleport. Then I'll never have to use stairs again!" Serge said with an odd amount of passion in his voice.

"I suppose that is one way to be motivated."

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"I know it is more difficult now, that is what Tremere the Founder foresaw, that is why he tried to create a new lichdom ritual, to preserve magick, he was terrified of it one day leaving the world leaving a cold, logical world behind."

"His reasons for looking for a way to strengthen magick or keep it strong were not bad in and of itself...what he did to achieve it though, that did not work out so well."

"We grew up together at the same Covenant, we where like brothers off course I would help him, Ernje saves my life more times than I could count as well, we had one another's back that be against a raging Diedne Druid or against his Mentor...we kept one another alive."
Carmon said and he gave you a fond look.

He had, until he hadn't..."We wish we had talked with one another that day. We wish we could have convinced you to stay at our home. We regret not asking outright what was wrong, and of justifying our reasons why we did not. At least we could have said goodbye. We suppose now must be the time to do that."

"Yes...I was..." Carmon repeated then he was quiet as you cleaned him up when you asked him to repeat his wishes to Mosfatt he spoke again, he looked terrified now as death approached. "Very well, I will repeat my wishes to him so we have a witness and time have a different meaning for me, but I have to admit that...I would like this to be over as soon as possible."He said in a terrified tone of voice.

He nodded, stood up and told himself not to linger, or draw things out more. He went over the door to ask Mosfatt, "Sir, I would ask you to bear witness to the prisoner's wishes, so that when I pass on the request it will be known it was not under any duress and of his own desire." After a moment he realised he had just said all of that in Latin, frowned and switched to English with a muttered apology.

[Tane Karyak]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

Incidentally, entering a Caul is not illegal, being Fallen is, but with one spectacular exception, it does appear to be the invariable outcome of going there... but it also appears that the motivation for entering does greatly affect the degree of corruption, to the point of virtues lingering until the next incarnation...

Could it be argued that someone forced to enter the Caul to protect her mentor is not doing anything illegal? So it was not illegal, and she is in an illegal state due to been forced. A person can't be blamed by the actions undertaken when there's no will, it's part of the basic conditions for law actions: you can only commit a law act if you have the will to do such actions by your own volition, you understand what it implicates (although you don't need to be aware of the law, you need to understand the causality of your actions), you have the capacity, the way and a licit objetive.
As i see it, if mage law is the same, they were not acting of their own volition and they had a licit objetive that was not the objective of turning themselves on fallen mages but they wanted to legitimelly protect a third party. Under the circumstances, they should be treated by the same law of a widderslaint (given they too are not able to make legal acts since acts have been niflicted upon their souls in the moment of receiving their avatars), a mental Disabled or a child.
By jurisprudence, then, we should be able to get them a powerful mentor to get them spared. Right? That's the difference in regular jurisprudence, although i have my doubts about mage jurisprudence, though, since it doesn't specifies what are the conditions for a person to be able to do anything.

What do you guys think, could we go with that and argue too that they can be turned back to their original state

"The Virtual Adepts might have a few options as far as simulations go, though - which is a good route to go without endangering others."

Oh, well, then with a model we can try to replicate. I hope Master Telar can help.

If we need test subjects, there are this shards sitting between our worlds and the umbra... maybe some of those are fallen and can be used, since they are already shattered and not linked to anyone, they should be safe to use now that i think of them.

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Junkyard]

Anja's Post:

"Near to the wire, this is going to be.' Nicole said to herself, then looked back to Bruce and Colin. 'Don't think I'll have time to get those flare-guns; somebody else will have to do it - unless we've got some in stores back at base. If you can get the cavalry ready to go by the time I get back, I can bring them with me... don't want too many parked cars about, might alert our targets.'

Colin's Post:

'Naturally, he'll survive, and will tell all how I was the stupid one, how he'd tried to save me, blah blah blah...' rolling her eyes.

[Nicole's Apartment]

Anja's Post:

'Don't really see why it would be an issue; do the "what's that over here?" distraction, in it goes. Not like it's the size of a knitting needle or anything.'

Anja's Post:

The large woman gave a laugh at this. 'True enough... though folk said I took after grandpa. Not sure if they meant that as a good or bad thing...'

[Skype Call]

Anja's Post:

'No rush... just an idea for the "Mark 2" version of the sub-dermals. After all, if you're going to all the effort to get them in without scarring might as well see if you can get it to do more than one thing.'

Anja's Post:

A soft laugh. 'Hopefully by that point I'll know what questions to ask.'

[Serge's Adventure]

Serge's Post:

'Why not? Not being used by anyone. Whole blocks of empty places.' ending with a shrug.

Serge's Post:

'Found a few... but from the looks of it the type which someone would get mad if you just moved in.' Nicole replied.

Serge's Post:

'Nah... most interesting find was an old Union base.' Nicole replied in a nonchalant manner, making the last of her pie vanish.

[RI Roadtrip]

Adley's Post:

'Full, but flexible. It's only a little shop, so not so formal.' apparently not noticing the eyebrow.

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Cabal Meeting]

"You are not most people, and most would like to lie for themselves, I do not want such self delusions though, I know some things are illegal and I admit to doing them with no regrets."
Bruce said and frowned.

"Different strokes for different folks." Serge said with a shrug.

Bruce giggled a little at that.
"Ah well I am sure your heart will love that getting no exercise what so ever."
He added dryly.

"I suppose that is one way to be motivated."

"I've survived this long. Either I'm extremely lucky or destined for health problems in the future." Serge said with a smile.

"Call me modern but I'd rather the tass-infused wine than the stuffed mice..." He made a face.

"What he said."
Bruce declared and pointed at Adley.

"I'm cool with both. Although tass-infused wine does sound quite nice..."

(OOC: I think you might've missed my library post Anja.)

[Serge's Adventure]

'Why not? Not being used by anyone. Whole blocks of empty places.' ending with a shrug.

"Just seemed off. Isn't the land owned or building owned by someone? Anyone? Did whole blocks of people really just leave?" Serge asked.

'Found a few... but from the looks of it the type which someone would get mad if you just moved in.' Nicole replied.

"Who'd get mad? Especially if there abandoned? The local hobos?"

'Nah... most interesting find was an old Union base.' Nicole replied in a nonchalant manner, making the last of her pie vanish.

"Oh..." Serge said sounding a little dissapointed. "Oh well. Old Union Base's has it's own fair share of cool things to find. Did you find some sort of malfunctioning HIT-Mark? Or some creepy genetic ooze eating away at the walls?"

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Serge's Adventure]

Serge's Post:

'Oh, it's owned; usually by vulture funds. They don't give a fuck; just betting that "one day" it'll be worth loads of green.' Nicole replied. 'This is Detroit we're talking about; capital of the Rustbelt. Lost half of it's population and most of it's industry, it has; like an old lady still living in the old family home which is too big for one person and is falling to bits.'

Serge's Post:

'Owners; they send in their police or goons. Places like Boston empty places ain't empty for long.'

Serge's Post:

'Nah. Just a load of trash, dead animals, a few little bits of tools and an armoured suit with the torso clawed up.' she replied. 'If we're all done here, let's get on our way back.'

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"His reasons for looking for a way to strengthen magick or keep it strong were not bad in and of itself...what he did to achieve it though, that did not work out so well."

"The real issue is what Tremere the Founder did when his experiment horribly failed. Originally he thought that adding vampire blood to the lichdom potion would make liches without the negative side effects, however when it destroyed his Gift he did not then simply admit failure and ask for death or for a way to still be useful to the Order, he wanted power and so he stated turning his House and any other mage he could get his hands on instead...that is the real horror of the matter."
Carmon said bitterly.

He had, until he hadn't..."We wish we had talked with one another that day. We wish we could have convinced you to stay at our home. We regret not asking outright what was wrong, and of justifying our reasons why we did not. At least we could have said goodbye. We suppose now must be the time to do that."

"Both of us had lives and things to worry about, and you did not now, it is easy to look back and think should have could have, but unless you got a future vision of what took place and then ignored it, this was not your fault Amicus. It is like the man who loose his wife to a drunk driver who sit thinking what if he had convinced her to stay ten minutes longer and have breakfast that morning...such thinking lead to no good."
The vampire said softly.
"And yes we will say our goodbyes now like we should have back then."

He nodded, stood up and told himself not to linger, or draw things out more. He went over the door to ask Mosfatt, "Sir, I would ask you to bear witness to the prisoner's wishes, so that when I pass on the request it will be known it was not under any duress and of his own desire." After a moment he realised he had just said all of that in Latin, frowned and switched to English with a muttered apology.

Mosfatt looked confused when you spoke in Latin but then he only smiled a little at your apology and nodded and went with you into the small chamber.
"I hear you want me to witness your wishes Sir."
He said politely to Carmon.
"Yes that is best so that none will suspect my Amicus of baring false witness."
The vampire replied and when Mosfatt nodded Carmon said in a determined if terrified voice.
"It is my wish to be put to death, I no longer wish to live with the longing for my lost Gift. I have requested to die by my Amicus' hands and his magickal fire. I wish for the ash which will be my only remains to be gathered and given to my Amicus' assosiate, I do not know his name but he is a stocy, scarred man, he can use the Vis I will be reduced to for magick. I can no longer work true magick but in being used to cast such willworking I will be part of magick one last time. This is my wish of my own free will."
He said and Mosfatt nodded.
"I see Sir, I will inform our Chantry leaders of your choice, one question what would you like us to do if you where to change your mind right before the deed is done."
The Akashic asked and Carmon replied softly.
"Then do not listen to me, now I am of sound mind and in control, as death approches it is likely the Beast inside of me will take over and it wish for my survival at any cost, but that Beast is not me, it want to live with no purpose, life just for the sake of life, I want my torment to end."
The Akashic looked a bit uncomfortable at that and he looked at you and nodded.
"I have heard your words."
He said siply before looking at you again, it would be hard to end Carmon when the vampire lost control and begged to be spared, there was nothing else to say though.

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

Could it be argued that someone forced to enter the Caul to protect her mentor is not doing anything illegal? So it was not illegal, and she is in an illegal state due to been forced. A person can't be blamed by the actions undertaken when there's no will, it's part of the basic conditions for law actions: you can only commit a law act if you have the will to do such actions by your own volition, you understand what it implicates (although you don't need to be aware of the law, you need to understand the causality of your actions), you have the capacity, the way and a licit objetive.

"I doubt it Mr Karyak, the thing is that being Fallen is illegal by Tradition law no matter how you got that way. Also no one can toss you into a Caul or so I hear and since being Fallen is considered the same as betraying Asencion itself, if your life is threatened or you are tortured or a loved one is threatened is not considered enough duress to commit such an act."
Bruce said and shook his head.

As i see it, if mage law is the same, they were not acting of their own volition and they had a licit objetive that was not the objective of turning themselves on fallen mages but they wanted to legitimelly protect a third party. Under the circumstances, they should be treated by the same law of a widderslaint (given they too are not able to make legal acts since acts have been niflicted upon their souls in the moment of receiving their avatars), a mental Disabled or a child.
By jurisprudence, then, we should be able to get them a powerful mentor to get them spared. Right? That's the difference in regular jurisprudence, although i have my doubts about mage jurisprudence, though, since it doesn't specifies what are the conditions for a person to be able to do anything.

What do you guys think, could we go with that and argue too that they can be turned back to their original state

"It do not work like that among mages and the thing is Gilgulling Fallen is not really about crime and punishment it is about damage control, if you have a horrible illness with no treatment and the CDC can not control it then the military might move in, kill the afflicted and salt the earth, that do not mean they think the sick have any fault in their condition."
The Orphan said and frowned.
"Also Miss Clearwater is a fully initiated member of the Traditions you can not just give a fully initiated mage a Mentor, also there is not really that anyone have sat down and thought ok widderslaintes have no fault in their condition so we will leave them this loophole, the only reason why Bee was saved and a small handful like her is precedence, nothing else and there is no precedences to let a Nephandus off the hood by reducing them to apprentice ran and giving them a teacher. Also in addition to all of that I doubt you would find any Master of the art willing to take on a Nephandus like Miss Clearwater as a student."

Oh, well, then with a model we can try to replicate. I hope Master Telar can help.

If we need test subjects, there are this shards sitting between our worlds and the umbra... maybe some of those are fallen and can be used, since they are already shattered and not linked to anyone, they should be safe to use now that i think of them.

"If anyone can help it would be Master Telar."
Bruce said then he shrugged.
"I know nothing about such shards though but if they are not linked to anyone I see nothing wrong in experimenting on them."

"Different strokes for different folks." Serge said with a shrug.

Bruce just grunted at that.

"I've survived this long. Either I'm extremely lucky or destined for health problems in the future." Serge said with a smile.

You are not extremely lucky most lifestyle diseases do not show up in a twenty year old when you are fifty though that is another matter."
The Orphan grunted.

[Going to Library]

"Let's see. Kyle or breakfast. Breakfast or Kyle." he said to himself as he exited his room. "Ehhhm, food is for the weak. To Kyle!" he pronounced pointing in a direction he hoped led to the Library where he would meet the young mage.

You found Kyle on his way to the library, the young mage looked considerably better now that he was out of the cell, he was wearing the same clothes but he ha showered and looked allot more hopeful, though there where still fear deep in his eyes.
"Hey Serge."
He said and he looked down as a hastily scribbled down map of the Chantry.
"Ready to go to the library, according to this it is through there."
He said and pointed.

[Junkyard]

"Near to the wire, this is going to be.' Nicole said to herself, then looked back to Bruce and Colin. 'Don't think I'll have time to get those flare-guns; somebody else will have to do it - unless we've got some in stores back at base. If you can get the cavalry ready to go by the time I get back, I can bring them with me... don't want too many parked cars about, might alert our targets.'

"One of us could go for the flares but it is not like we can afford them. I have about five dollars to my name and that is going to have to keep me with food for the entire week."
Trina said and her blond friend commented.
"I have three dollars and fifty cents."
She said and the third teenager shrugged.
"About the same...what do flare guns even cost?"

[Nicole's Apartment]

'Don't really see why it would be an issue; do the "what's that over here?" distraction, in it goes. Not like it's the size of a knitting needle or anything.'

"And if it was one shot I would not be concerned, distract the girl and if she cries afterwards a bit of ice cream should make er forget it all."
The Alchemist said.
"But we are talking about six to ten injections given in one session, ten another such session in three months, and another three months later to try to catch her up, she will not be distracted like that a second time. I remember when I was a kid, I had these shots, once every week for a year after I recovered from tuberculosis, and eight year old me dreaded them, one shot was okey though that I could take but if I had been told I would get six in a row that would be another matter entirely, which is why I am saying as soon as Cava says stop, it stops."

The large woman gave a laugh at this. 'True enough... though folk said I took after grandpa. Not sure if they meant that as a good or bad thing...'

Darrian chuckled at that.
"I guess that depend on who your grandfather is Miss Bouchard and what he had a habit of doing."

[Skype Call]

'No rush... just an idea for the "Mark 2" version of the sub-dermals. After all, if you're going to all the effort to get them in without scarring might as well see if you can get it to do more than one thing.'

"Indeed and I will add it to my list of research topics."
Baynes agreed.

A soft laugh. 'Hopefully by that point I'll know what questions to ask.'

The Etherite nodded at that.
"Very well...was there then anything else you wish to discuss with me Nicole?"

(OOC: Yeah I missed the library part sorry.)

[Adley]

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

'Full, but flexible. It's only a little shop, so not so formal.' apparently not noticing the eyebrow.

"That sounds perfect. Sometimes I wish I had more flexibility with my schedule, like these last few weeks. It's been tough." He seemed content enough to fall into silence for a while; he may seem relaxed but it was more likely he was tired and he kept looking through the rear view mirror, checking to see if they were being followed or if traffic was just being its normal terrible state.

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"The real issue is what Tremere the Founder did when his experiment horribly failed. Originally he thought that adding vampire blood to the lichdom potion would make liches without the negative side effects, however when it destroyed his Gift he did not then simply admit failure and ask for death or for a way to still be useful to the Order, he wanted power and so he stated turning his House and any other mage he could get his hands on instead...that is the real horror of the matter."
Carmon said bitterly.

"True."

"Both of us had lives and things to worry about, and you did not now, it is easy to look back and think should have could have, but unless you got a future vision of what took place and then ignored it, this was not your fault Amicus. It is like the man who loose his wife to a drunk driver who sit thinking what if he had convinced her to stay ten minutes longer and have breakfast that morning...such thinking lead to no good." The vampire said softly. "And yes we will say our goodbyes now like we should have back then."

"Yes, you are right."

"I see Sir, I will inform our Chantry leaders of your choice, one question what would you like us to do if you where to change your mind right before the deed is done."
The Akashic asked and Carmon replied softly.
"Then do not listen to me, now I am of sound mind and in control, as death approches it is likely the Beast inside of me will take over and it wish for my survival at any cost, but that Beast is not me, it want to live with no purpose, life just for the sake of life, I want my torment to end."
The Akashic looked a bit uncomfortable at that and he looked at you and nodded.
"I have heard your words."
He said siply before looking at you again,

While Carmon told the Akashic his wishes, he was watching Carmon with a sorrowful expression. He saw that the other man looked over at him a few times. He knew it was going to be hard - perhaps they'd remove the spell. And this Beast he talked about was dangerous, and would do anything to survive. Or Carmon would have done this himself. "Additionally, he has consented to be checked for any sort of magick that might have been used on him by our enemies beforehand; such may also reveal any trickery that were being used to addle his mind to come to this decision.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

There where no one following you what Adley could see, traffic flowed around your care but none of the other cars seamed to be following yours, not that you could be sure but it did not seam like you where being followed.

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"True."

"If Tremere the Founder had acted like the noble Mercere after he lost his Gift in a lab accident, he could have been celebrated but he choose power over honor and that is never a good trade."
Carmon said angrily.

"Yes, you are right."

Carmon just looked at you for a moment, he said nothing more, just looked at you for a long while before continuing the conversation.

While Carmon told the Akashic his wishes, he was watching Carmon with a sorrowful expression. He saw that the other man looked over at him a few times. He knew it was going to be hard - perhaps they'd remove the spell. And this Beast he talked about was dangerous, and would do anything to survive. Or Carmon would have done this himself. "Additionally, he has consented to be checked for any sort of magick that might have been used on him by our enemies beforehand; such may also reveal any trickery that were being used to addle his mind to come to this decision.

The Akashic looked at you when you spoke then he nodded.
"I am afraid my skill with the pure flow of Prana...ehm Prime is limited while I study what you would call Mind as my main focus of magick, would you mind if I request aid from Lady Crexia for such an examination?"
Carmon's eyes went you you when he heard the name Crexia.
"She is still alive then, the grand lich herself, our commander on the battlefield, I would not mind seeing her again."

[Adley]

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"If Tremere the Founder had acted like the noble Mercere after he lost his Gift in a lab accident, he could have been celebrated but he choose power over honor and that is never a good trade." Carmon said angrily.

"Indeed not...he should not have brought this on all of you, who were loyal to him and the Order. His actions stole many avatars from the Tellurian."

The Akashic looked at you when you spoke then he nodded.
"I am afraid my skill with the pure flow of Prana...ehm Prime is limited while I study what you would call Mind as my main focus of magick, would you mind if I request aid from Lady Crexia for such an examination?"
Carmon's eyes went you you when he heard the name Crexia.
"She is still alive then, the grand lich herself, our commander on the battlefield, I would not mind seeing her again."

He gave the other mage a rather pointed look about using names around prisoners but then a flicker of curiosity crossed his face as he remembered that yes, Crexia would probably know Carmon and vice versa. In fact he was pretty sure the elder maga had figured quite a few things out, including who two of his former hosts were. "I believe that would be helpful, of course the Chief should also know what is going on in case he has other measures that he wishes to take," he agreed. "Should I stay here in the meanwhile?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Adley] (Chicago talking with Carmon]

"Indeed not...he should not have brought this on all of you, who were loyal to him and the Order. His actions stole many avatars from the Tellurian."

"It was a great loss, I can never forgive my Founder for his actions, his fear of loosing power damned us all."
Carmon said, still with anger in his voice.

He gave the other mage a rather pointed look about using names around prisoners

Mosfatt ignored your look.

but then a flicker of curiosity crossed his face as he remembered that yes, Crexia would probably know Carmon and vice versa. In fact he was pretty sure the elder maga had figured quite a few things out, including who two of his former hosts were. "I believe that would be helpful, of course the Chief should also know what is going on in case he has other measures that he wishes to take," he agreed. "Should I stay here in the meanwhile?"

"The prisoner should not be left alone this close to the end, that would be cruel. I will go and inform the Chief and ask Lady Crexia's aid, you stay here with the vampire."
Mosfatt said then he waited to see if there where any specific messages you wanted brought to the two older magi before he gave you and Carmon both a slight nod of his head before he turned and left the small basement room.

[Adley]

[Chicago, talking with Carmon]

He nodded to Mosfatt. "Agreed. Thank you, and please pass my thanks on to the others," he said, not wishing to seem ungrateful. "I will need assistance to fulfill his request. Unfortunately, I am injured and creating flame has only recently become possible for me in any case, however he wishes for me to...attend to this. If either have some ideas as to accomplish that, I would be grateful." He went to kneel back down on the pillow, unsure what might be said. Soon, he thought, would come the hard parts.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chicago, talking with Carmon]

He nodded to Mosfatt. "Agreed. Thank you, and please pass my thanks on to the others," he said, not wishing to seem ungrateful.

"I will do so."
The Akashic agreed.

"I will need assistance to fulfill his request. Unfortunately, I am injured and creating flame has only recently become possible for me in any case, however he wishes for me to...attend to this. If either have some ideas as to accomplish that, I would be grateful."

"I will mention this for the Masters as well and see if they have any idea for what can be done to help."
Mosfatt said then he waited to see if there where anything else before he left.

He went to kneel back down on the pillow, unsure what might be said. Soon, he thought, would come the hard parts.

"You look almost more nervous than me Amicus."
Carmon said as he looked at you.
"Are you sure you are willing to do this, I know I put a heavy burden on your shoulders."

[Adley]

[Chicago, talking with Carmon]

"I will mention this for the Masters as well and see if they have any idea for what can be done to help."
Mosfatt said then he waited to see if there where anything else before he left.

"I am unable to heal it with magick, however I have used a potion that was brewed for me once, that temporarily suppressed the pain and allowed me to concentrate. I don't know if such is a viable option but it should give an idea what might work or not."

"You look almost more nervous than me Amicus."
Carmon said as he looked at you.
"Are you sure you are willing to do this, I know I put a heavy burden on your shoulders."

"It is only that I wish to do right for you in this, without fail; to give you what you require even if I cannot give you what you deserve. I know I am not at my peak, yet it would be cruel to let you linger in such a state."

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Junkyard]

Anja's Post:

'The cheap-ass plastic ones... 'bout twenty-five to forty.' Nicole replied, doing some mental math - she always carried a fair bit of cash on her for such eventualities.

[Nicole's Apartment]

Anja's Post:

'Erm... TB? When was this, exactly?' Nicole replied, arching a suspicious eyebrow. ''Cos if you reply "1950s" or something I'll point out it's got much better since then. Plus, it might be possible for some of the jabs to be combined or done by mouth instead.'

Anja's Post:

'What is officially known as "a character".' Nicole replied, giving a little smile.

[Skype Call]

Anja's Post:

'No... think that's it on my end.' Nicole said after a mental check. 'And thanks.'

[RI Roadtrip]

Adley's Post:

'One of the bonuses of being a skilled trade... we're always in demand. No way my job could be outsourced to China or done by robot.' Nicole replied, giving a little laugh. 'Thinking of shifting tracks a bit... perhaps see if I can get into the MBTA or something.'

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Cabal Meeting]

You are not extremely lucky most lifestyle diseases do not show up in a twenty year old when you are fifty though that is another matter."
The Orphan grunted.

"So I have 30 years to learn how to screw around with life magick. Or smarten up and go on those jogs with Mr. wainwright and Adley."

[Going to the Library]

You found Kyle on his way to the library, the young mage looked considerably better now that he was out of the cell, he was wearing the same clothes but he ha showered and looked allot more hopeful, though there where still fear deep in his eyes.
"Hey Serge."
He said and he looked down as a hastily scribbled down map of the Chantry.
"Ready to go to the library, according to this it is through there."
He said and pointed.

"Hey Kyle!" Serge said with a pleasant smile on his face, glad to see the young mage a better mood then yesterday.

"I'm as ready as I'll ever be. Let's go see this wizard library! I'll be honest, I kinda want the books to attack us. Just cause that's what all magickal libraries seem to do." he joked reorganizing the books he held underneath his arm and pulling out the one he had gotten from the Primus to show to Kyle.

"By the way I got a few books myself while I was running around yesterday. I think you'd like this one. Got it from Master Steelhaven. It's about the true nature of the elements. Or at least the hermetic view of them. I actually haven't read it yet. Planned on saving it for this trip." he said beginning to walk in the direction that Kyle pointed in.

[Serge's Adventure]

'Owners; they send in their police or goons. Places like Boston empty places ain't empty for long.'

"So the trick is to be quick and find a place before someone else snatches it up?" Serge said. "Or be lucky enough to meet someone who just so happens to be looking to sell off his workshop."

'Nah. Just a load of trash, dead animals, a few little bits of tools and an armoured suit with the torso clawed up.' she replied. 'If we're all done here, let's get on our way back.'

"Sure thing." Serge said stretching his arms and legs as he rose up from his seat. "Thanks for the meal."

[Warpmind]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

Could it be argued that someone forced to enter the Caul to protect her mentor is not doing anything illegal? So it was not illegal, and she is in an illegal state due to been forced. A person can't be blamed by the actions undertaken when there's no will, it's part of the basic conditions for law actions: you can only commit a law act if you have the will to do such actions by your own volition, you understand what it implicates (although you don't need to be aware of the law, you need to understand the causality of your actions), you have the capacity, the way and a licit objetive.

"I doubt it Mr Karyak, the thing is that being Fallen is illegal by Tradition law no matter how you got that way. Also no one can toss you into a Caul or so I hear and since being Fallen is considered the same as betraying Asencion itself, if your life is threatened or you are tortured or a loved one is threatened is not considered enough duress to commit such an act."
Bruce said and shook his head.

Colin frowned, "The first problem with your logic there is that it is not illegal to enter a Caul - I did that, and got away with it - the illegal part is being Fallen. And the second problem with your logic is that by all accounts, someone forced against their will into a Caul does not get out alive. It does not matter how you are coerced, deceived or otherwise sent into the Caul, you have to enter it of your own conscious volition."

As i see it, if mage law is the same, they were not acting of their own volition and they had a licit objetive that was not the objective of turning themselves on fallen mages but they wanted to legitimelly protect a third party. Under the circumstances, they should be treated by the same law of a widderslaint (given they too are not able to make legal acts since acts have been niflicted upon their souls in the moment of receiving their avatars), a mental Disabled or a child.
By jurisprudence, then, we should be able to get them a powerful mentor to get them spared. Right? That's the difference in regular jurisprudence, although i have my doubts about mage jurisprudence, though, since it doesn't specifies what are the conditions for a person to be able to do anything.

What do you guys think, could we go with that and argue too that they can be turned back to their original state

"It do not work like that among mages and the thing is Gilgulling Fallen is not really about crime and punishment it is about damage control, if you have a horrible illness with no treatment and the CDC can not control it then the military might move in, kill the afflicted and salt the earth, that do not mean they think the sick have any fault in their condition."
The Orphan said and frowned.
"Also Miss Clearwater is a fully initiated member of the Traditions you can not just give a fully initiated mage a Mentor, also there is not really that anyone have sat down and thought ok widderslaintes have no fault in their condition so we will leave them this loophole, the only reason why Bee was saved and a small handful like her is precedence, nothing else and there is no precedences to let a Nephandus off the hood by reducing them to apprentice ran and giving them a teacher. Also in addition to all of that I doubt you would find any Master of the art willing to take on a Nephandus like Miss Clearwater as a student."

He nodded, "There is one precedent for letting a Nephandus, one who has been into the Caul in this life, live on as a Traditionalist. That precedent is when their Avatar is too outright dangerous to flay, and killing the Fallen in question would mean an even more dangerous widderslainte being born later. I've met that renegade Nephandus in person, by the way; quite a pleasant man, but you really don't want to threaten his Avatar."

Oh, well, then with a model we can try to replicate. I hope Master Telar can help.

If we need test subjects, there are this shards sitting between our worlds and the umbra... maybe some of those are fallen and can be used, since they are already shattered and not linked to anyone, they should be safe to use now that i think of them.

"If anyone can help it would be Master Telar."
Bruce said then he shrugged.
"I know nothing about such shards though but if they are not linked to anyone I see nothing wrong in experimenting on them."

He frowned, "That's probably not going to be easy, even if you can find those shards - they're known to be dangerously attracted to the nearest potential host; Magi have wound up getting essentially shanked in their Avatar like that."

"I would not go back in time and change things but if I had been told we had to sacrifice Bee to win then screw that then I would protect her there and then, I will not let her get hurt again, not for any reason."
The Artificer said in a huff.

"It's easiest to say that now, when we cannot change things. Let's not dwell on that..."

Bruce nodded he looked rather unhappy about it though.

He nodded, "Keep in mind, you likely won't get the choice to not let her be hurt again - Fate is a fickle mistress, and while the choices we make change the future, we don't always get a good option to pick..."

Bruce pulled out his phone, brought up the web browser, typed in popcorn time and tapped something then he showed you.
"There you gp, that much time and you have a slew of movies and shows at your disposal for free, that is less time than getting an antenna and watch the news and shit."
He said plainly.

"I would argue that the less-legal options require no investment of time at all but I can see how people less familiar with those methods might struggle." Serge said with a nod.

"Which is exactly my argument, the old might then resort to using an antennae, but younger folks are far more likely to just use one of the illegal options."
Bruce declared.

"Hey! It might be illegal but you don't have to say that. Makes me feel like a criminal." Serge said with a wry grin.

"Would you rather I like Serge?"
Bruce said and he raised and eyebrow.
"You are technically speaking a criminal so am I for that matter it is hardly legal for me to build my forge in that abandoned junkyard, some laws I can honestly say I ignore, but I am not going to lie about it!"

"I'm too young for jail though." Serge said chuckling, obvious that he was joking around. "Honestly I don't really care. Most people I know don't like to acknowledge it even though they know everyone else does it."

"You are not most people, and most would like to lie for themselves, I do not want such self delusions though, I know some things are illegal and I admit to doing them with no regrets."
Bruce said and frowned.

"Different strokes for different folks." Serge said with a shrug.

Bruce just grunted at that.

He smiled wryly, "Yes, it is quick to load up popcorn time on the phone like that - but you are missing my point; you essentially speak of individual people, I speak of families. If you don't know about popcorn time, how would you find it, and how viable is it for a whole family to sit around a phone to watch a movie? As for the legality of it - well, there are good laws and bad laws, and any law that is likely to not be respected by the citizenry or law enforcement in general is a pretty bad law..."

"Whoa Whoa whoa. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up." Serge said rapidly, repeating his words for emphasis. "Roof Garden? We have a roof garden! Why did no one tell me about that!"

"It is fairly new, Miss Rozzo made it, the garden is pretty neat though you should take a look up there at some point."
The Orphan said with a smile.

He smiled. "It's fall, so leaves are dropping and soon the cold will come but it is still beautiful and a nice place to meditate. I like to go there when I need to think but have been indoors too long."

"Yeah the garden is nice."
Bruce said.
"And you are right Adley it is a nice place to meditate and it will be even nicer once Miss Rozzo's plants return for spring and grow up nice and strong."

He arched an eyebrow, "Wait... we have a roof garden? I knew we have a flat roof, where Dr. Lee does his morning martial arts practice, but when was the garden aspect of it added?"

"There's still so much of this place I need to explore. The ritual rooms, the garage, the other miscellaneous rooms this giant place has." Serge said with a sigh. "Guess the roof garden will have to go on the list as well. That means stairs though....ugh why doesn't this place have elevators."

"Because elevators cost money to install and this is a old building."
Bruce said and shrugged.
"And I hardly think walking up a few stairs are going to kill you kid."

"Perish the thought," he said, glancing at Serge.

"True....watch, I'm gonna learn how to teleport. Then I'll never have to use stairs again!" Serge said with an odd amount of passion in his voice.

Bruce giggled a little at that.
"Ah well I am sure your heart will love that getting no exercise what so ever."
He added dryly.

"I suppose that is one way to be motivated."

"I've survived this long. Either I'm extremely lucky or destined for health problems in the future." Serge said with a smile.

You are not extremely lucky most lifestyle diseases do not show up in a twenty year old when you are fifty though that is another matter."
The Orphan grunted.

"So I have 30 years to learn how to screw around with life magick. Or smarten up and go on those jogs with Mr. wainwright and Adley."

He grinned, "Keep in mind there are such things as teleportation wards. You don't want to accidentally bounce off an unexpected barrier and find yourself suddenly seated at a dinner table across the street, chowing down on a large serving of Paradox. Aside from exercise, taking the stairs does have its advantages for Mages, too."

"Mice as in the rodent...well....that is interesting I guess."
Bruce said and he raised an eyebrow.
"I am sure it will be a nice dinner in either case."

"What are they stuffed with? The extinct herbs and spices?" Serge asked curiously.

"Call me modern but I'd rather the tass-infused wine than the stuffed mice..." He made a face.

"What he said."
Bruce declared and pointed at Adley.

"I'm cool with both. Although tass-infused wine does sound quite nice..."

He grinned, "There's no guarantee there'll be rodents of any kind on the table, though - even if Strawberry were to be invited along. As for the tass-infused wine, I'm afraid that's quite well outside the budget I had in mind. You'll be lucky if I can get some decent ales and wines to go with the assorted dishes."

"That the Node have a low temperature is not going to change by hanging up a painting Colin."
The other Orphan commented.

He nodded, "Not in and of itself, no, but it's amazing how much a few warm colours and a bit of fabric can change one's perception of the room's temperature."

"It is buuut....the Ecstatics aren't the most organized group. The values and lessons vary wildly from member to member and mentor to mentor. Although the ones who are told to slow down from time to time are the ones that usually survive long enough to pass on their teachings." Serge said with a shrug.

He nodded, "Temperance is a fine virtue; moderation in all things, including moderation."

"I'm just not going to know when it will happen then? It will just happen...that is hard...I have to teach classes. Drive." He frowned. "Thank you for the advice, though I think you would be the first person I might call..."

He nodded, "It could kick in tomorrow, in ten years - or never. Dr. Boudavich would probably be the best person to offer long-term assistance, but I'll be glad to help you center yourself if you should end up with... lasting issues."

[Abandoned Junkyard]

"I am not sure if that is really cool or really disturbing. I still say being able to see spirits are neat though. I would love to be able to see them."
The blond girl said.
"Not even Trina can see spirits? Are there any spirits around here?"

He nodded, "A somewhat floral dog, as I mentioned, a few small trash spirits scampering around, and," he pointed toward where the larger spirit was apparently hiding, "what I surmise to be the spiritual manifestation of the whole junkyard, taking a nap in that stack of cars over there. I would not disturb it needlessly. As I offered a few minutes ago, I can try to share my senses with you, but I can't guarantee it will work, or how long it will last."

'Naturally, he'll survive, and will tell all how I was the stupid one, how he'd tried to save me, blah blah blah...' rolling her eyes.

He nodded, "Of course he will, but on the bright side, the after-action report will probably note how he was scheduled to work on the launch tubes while you were overhauling the fuel system, making it abundantly clear who was really at fault... not, of course, that that will help you in any way..."

"Near to the wire, this is going to be.' Nicole said to herself, then looked back to Bruce and Colin. 'Don't think I'll have time to get those flare-guns; somebody else will have to do it - unless we've got some in stores back at base. If you can get the cavalry ready to go by the time I get back, I can bring them with me... don't want too many parked cars about, might alert our targets.'

"One of us could go for the flares but it is not like we can afford them. I have about five dollars to my name and that is going to have to keep me with food for the entire week."
Trina said and her blond friend commented.
"I have three dollars and fifty cents."
She said and the third teenager shrugged.
"About the same...what do flare guns even cost?"

'The cheap-ass plastic ones... 'bout twenty-five to forty.' Nicole replied, doing some mental math - she always carried a fair bit of cash on her for such eventualities.

He frowned, "Twenty-five to forty, and how much extra for flares? I used most of my cash for a few necessary supplies on the way here, but I think I have a couple of twenties to spare..."

[Avatar Restoration Discussion, Cita's apartment]

Cita nodded at that.
"Very well Mr Wainwright."

He pondered for a moment, "Keep in mind the candidates I have in mind are not necessarily going to accept; it's one hell of a long shot either way... but I'll not have Mr. Karyak find them and pester them."

"I see little point in such a test, yes it hurt the host just as much if their Avatar is hurt when the Avatar is pulled out of the soul as when it is inside of it, however testing this on a number of people, what on earth will that do for our case?"
Cita asked and she gave you a very confused look.

"It will hurt the host. When Mrs Carlyle's avatar was...out of her body, so to speak, I was able to use a spell that hurt it due to it's nature of being spliced with a lower spiritual being. Using a spirit-based magick on it had indeed hurt it, and we heard her cry out."

"Indeed, Branding as well happens after the Avatar have been pulled out the host's soul, Gilgul as well for that matter it is much harder to affect an Avatar as long as it is snugly sitting insie the host soul and both of those things are definitely painful for the host."
Cita said and she frowned.
"Excruciatingly painful."

He frowned, "Any tampering with an Avatar is going to be painful, that much is not in question - what I am wondering about is whether there is a difference in discomfort between that of an Avatar forcibly dragged out for examination, and that of one politely invited out by Mr. Karyak's song. It seems plausible enough that an examination with a gentle hand when the Avatar is manifested and relaxed, as it were, might be less traumatic than when it is forced out and essentially roughly manhandled. I certainly would want to know in advance if it going to make a difference for Anna when her time to be examined comes... I would volunteer for such a test myself, but that's... not really a viable option for rather particular and unique reasons, is it?"

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Cabal Meeting]

He smiled wryly, "Yes, it is quick to load up popcorn time on the phone like that - but you are missing my point; you essentially speak of individual people, I speak of families. If you don't know about popcorn time, how would you find it, and how viable is it for a whole family to sit around a phone to watch a movie? As for the legality of it - well, there are good laws and bad laws, and any law that is likely to not be respected by the citizenry or law enforcement in general is a pretty bad law..."

"Yeah I see what you mean. I mostly did my media watching by myself so I don't really have experience with the group aspect of it. Are family movie nights a thing? I thought that was mostly a thing in sitcoms and family tv shows. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing them in real life, at least while I was in school. My family sure as hell didn't do them." Serge said with a slight frown.

He grinned, "Keep in mind there are such things as teleportation wards. You don't want to accidentally bounce off an unexpected barrier and find yourself suddenly seated at a dinner table across the street, chowing down on a large serving of Paradox. Aside from exercise, taking the stairs does have its advantages for Mages, too."

"I'd probably just teleport around within the chantry. Wake up in the morning. Get out of bed. Snap my fingers..., Serge said giving a playful snap of his fingers as a demonstration, "....And appear in a chair in the common room. No paradox and no ruined dinners across the street. Unless I screw it up royally but let's not worry about that now."

He nodded, "Not in and of itself, no, but it's amazing how much a few warm colours and a bit of fabric can change one's perception of the room's temperature."

"One of the many things I've learned in my artist's life." Serge said nodding enthusiastically. "Correct use of bright and warm colors in the right places can work wonders on how you feel about a certain picture. Making you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside or cold and clammy when you realize there's a lack of colors."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Chicago, talking with Carmon]

"I am unable to heal it with magick, however I have used a potion that was brewed for me once, that temporarily suppressed the pain and allowed me to concentrate. I don't know if such is a viable option but it should give an idea what might work or not."

The Akashic nodded at that.
"I will bring that idea to the Masters' attention then Mr Roth Hicks."
He agreed.

"It is only that I wish to do right for you in this, without fail; to give you what you require even if I cannot give you what you deserve. I know I am not at my peak, yet it would be cruel to let you linger in such a state."

"It is okey Ernje...eve if the burning...takes a bit of time it is okey, just promise me to not leave before I am ash, we are alive as long as our bodies are not completely destroyed, our hearts are destroyed or we are decapitated so I will be alive long after a human being would be dead."
The vampire asked softly.

[Junkyard]

He nodded, "A somewhat floral dog, as I mentioned, a few small trash spirits scampering around, and," he pointed toward where the larger spirit was apparently hiding, "what I surmise to be the spiritual manifestation of the whole junkyard, taking a nap in that stack of cars over there. I would not disturb it needlessly. As I offered a few minutes ago, I can try to share my senses with you, but I can't guarantee it will work, or how long it will last."

"Yeah that would be cool to be able to see them."
The blond girl agreed.
"How would you share your vison? And some of those creatures sounds so cute."

'The cheap-ass plastic ones... 'bout twenty-five to forty.' Nicole replied, doing some mental math - she always carried a fair bit of cash on her for such eventualities.

"Yeah well none of us can afford that but we can run and buy the flare guns if someone lead us cash to buy them with."
Trina said and sigh.

'Erm... TB? When was this, exactly?' Nicole replied, arching a suspicious eyebrow. ''Cos if you reply "1950s" or something I'll point out it's got much better since then. Plus, it might be possible for some of the jabs to be combined or done by mouth instead.'

"I was born in 1949 so when I was eight it was 1957 so yes it was in the 1950's and I know they make thinner needles now, it is not like I have never gone to the doctor in more recent decades, and I have kept up to date with my own vaccines, and to be honest I still think they are painful, not to the pain where an adult would normally have any problems with them but several in a row for a kid that is another matter. But yes I will speak with Dr Lee if it is possible to reduce the number of injections."
Darrian said and he frowned.
"Like I said if Cava have no problem with the whole thing then great I am just saying I will not force her if she have a problem with it."

'What is officially known as "a character".' Nicole replied, giving a little smile.

"Ah I see, well those are often the best relatives."
The Alchemist replied sounding amused.

[Skype Call]

'No... think that's it on my end.' Nicole said after a mental check. 'And thanks.'

"Very well then, you have my number if you need anything."
Baynes said.
"Take care of yourself."
The Etherite added before he hung up on the skype call.

[Cabal Meeting]

"So I have 30 years to learn how to screw around with life magick. Or smarten up and go on those jogs with Mr. wainwright and Adley."

"Life magick then Serge for it do not matter if you start taking care of yourself at age 50, the damage will have already been done, you should be happy you are not my apprentice or I would chase you around with a cattle prod to get you moving."
The large Orphan said with no indication on whatever or not he was joking.

He nodded, "There is one precedent for letting a Nephandus, one who has been into the Caul in this life, live on as a Traditionalist. That precedent is when their Avatar is too outright dangerous to flay, and killing the Fallen in question would mean an even more dangerous widderslainte being born later. I've met that renegade Nephandus in person, by the way; quite a pleasant man, but you really don't want to threaten his Avatar."

"Shit we actually have a Nephandus in the Traditions? Other than your apprentice that is?"
Bruce said and his eyes widened.
"I will assume that this do not work to get Miss Clearwater off the hood though."

He frowned, "That's probably not going to be easy, even if you can find those shards - they're known to be dangerously attracted to the nearest potential host; Magi have wound up getting essentially shanked in their Avatar like that."

"Yeah that do not sound good."
The other Orphan commented and shuddered.

He nodded, "Keep in mind, you likely won't get the choice to not let her be hurt again - Fate is a fickle mistress, and while the choices we make change the future, we don't always get a good option to pick..."

"No I will protect her and if you are thinking about January, then no we are not going to let her get killed in that attack, we now about it now and we will be ready for the bastards!"
Bruce declared.

He smiled wryly, "Yes, it is quick to load up popcorn time on the phone like that - but you are missing my point; you essentially speak of individual people, I speak of families. If you don't know about popcorn time, how would you find it, and how viable is it for a whole family to sit around a phone to watch a movie? As for the legality of it - well, there are good laws and bad laws, and any law that is likely to not be respected by the citizenry or law enforcement in general is a pretty bad law..."

"And how likely is it that a family with kids, are going to sit an watch old people shows on a few channel, and popcorn time work on most things, and also kids in the family will know about it."
Bruce said and shook his head.
"There are to much good entertainment out there for anyone under the age of 60 to sit and watch reruns and shit community shows over an antennae."

He arched an eyebrow, "Wait... we have a roof garden? I knew we have a flat roof, where Dr. Lee does his morning martial arts practice, but when was the garden aspect of it added?"

"About a week ago when Miss Rozzo arrived, you know Verbena and their plants."
Te Orphan explained.

He grinned, "There's no guarantee there'll be rodents of any kind on the table, though - even if Strawberry were to be invited along. As for the tass-infused wine, I'm afraid that's quite well outside the budget I had in mind. You'll be lucky if I can get some decent ales and wines to go with the assorted dishes."

"Strawberry that is the rat shifter right?"
Bruce asked.

He nodded, "Not in and of itself, no, but it's amazing how much a few warm colours and a bit of fabric can change one's perception of the room's temperature."

"The Node look raw and natural and I quite prefer it like that I do not think warmer colors will add much there."
Bruce said and he shook his head.

[Going to the Library]

"Hey Kyle!" Serge said with a pleasant smile on his face, glad to see the young mage a better mood then yesterday.

"I'm as ready as I'll ever be. Let's go see this wizard library! I'll be honest, I kinda want the books to attack us. Just cause that's what all magickal libraries seem to do." he joked reorganizing the books he held underneath his arm and pulling out the one he had gotten from the Primus to show to Kyle.

"It would not surprise me Serge if they did but I hope they will just sit there and let us read them."
Kyle said and he sounded amused.

"By the way I got a few books myself while I was running around yesterday. I think you'd like this one. Got it from Master Steelhaven. It's about the true nature of the elements. Or at least the hermetic view of them. I actually haven't read it yet. Planned on saving it for this trip." he said beginning to walk in the direction that Kyle pointed in.

Kyle took the book and opened it and read a little here and there as he walked.
"Wow Master Steelhaven gave this to you? Lucky you, this is really interesting actually."
He said as you got to the library door.

On the other side of the door there was a large chamber, all the walls where filled with bookshelves and three rows of more bookshelves was placed in the middle of the room, towards the door where a small sitting group with some chairs and a table and right next to a door where a large log book on a stand with a pen where residents would write up what books they borrowed, their name and the date.
"This is pretty cool."
Kyle said and he looked up from the book you had handed him.
"That is allot of books."

[Avatar Restoration Discussion, Cita's apartment]

He pondered for a moment, "Keep in mind the candidates I have in mind are not necessarily going to accept; it's one hell of a long shot either way... but I'll not have Mr. Karyak find them and pester them."

"Very well I will leave it you to ask them then Mr Wainwright."
Cita agreed.
"I assume you do not want to reveal their identities here?"

He frowned, "Any tampering with an Avatar is going to be painful, that much is not in question - what I am wondering about is whether there is a difference in discomfort between that of an Avatar forcibly dragged out for examination, and that of one politely invited out by Mr. Karyak's song.

"There is no pain when Mr Karyak use his song Mr Wainwright as then the Avatar is not forced it is invited out, it would be the difference between the police handcuffing you and dragging you out of your apartment and you coming out because you wanted to listen to Miss Olsen's lovely violin music."
Cita explained.

It seems plausible enough that an examination with a gentle hand when the Avatar is manifested and relaxed, as it were, might be less traumatic than when it is forced out and essentially roughly manhandled. I certainly would want to know in advance if it going to make a difference for Anna when her time to be examined comes... I would volunteer for such a test myself, but that's... not really a viable option for rather particular and unique reasons, is it?"

"Yes Mr Karyak singing Anna's Avatar out before I do the examination will be much more plesant for the girl, again to use a similie it would be the difference between the police holding you down to check for drugs in your system and you willingly going to a family doctor you trust and have the examination done."
Cita said.
"There would be far less trauma for both the girl and her Avatar."

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Skype Call]

Anja's Post:

'And you.' Nicole replied, hanging up herself. Turning back to reading an article titled "Mating Habits of Brown Rats"...

[Scene End?]

[Nicole's Apartment]

Anja's Post:

'They've got a jab for that, y'know.' Nicole replied thoughtfully. 'If you'd been born say twenty years later and you'd had it, you wouldn't have had all that treatment. A series of small stinging pricks, p'haps a little soreness after... to make sure the kid does not have to go through greater shit later on which might even kill them.' getting the feeling that Darrian was more the road-block than the kid herself.

Anja's Post:

'That he was.' Nicole replied, giving a little smile as she remembered a few of the tales about him. 'Little sad I never got to know him.'

[Junkyard]

Colin's Post:

Anja's Post:

'Flares come pre-loaded with gun; once they're used, simply bin it.' Nicole said. 'I've got...' pulling a worn leather wallet from a pocket '...forty-five spare.'

Colin's Post:

'If I'm gonna die from being exploded, want it to be from my own stupidity.' the large woman quipped with a little smirk.

[Serge's Adventure]

Serge's Post:

A short silence, with a little frown. 'Think you don't get what I meant... which was to find a suitable place without shelling out a single dime. If you've got the green to get it... well, you can get anything you want.'

Serge's Post:

'Eh, you're welcome.' the Etherite replied, getting out of the booth, stretching out herself and giving a tiny yawn. Then moved towards the counter to pay; one hand scratching her rear as she did so.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Nicole's Apartment]

'They've got a jab for that, y'know.' Nicole replied thoughtfully. 'If you'd been born say twenty years later and you'd had it, you wouldn't have had all that treatment. A series of small stinging pricks, p'haps a little soreness after... to make sure the kid does not have to go through greater shit later on which might even kill them.' getting the feeling that Darrian was more the road-block than the kid herself.

"Tuberculosis? Yes there is a vaccine for that and that is wonderful, it save many from going through what I did...and it would have saved my aunts and my baby brother. I am not opposed to vaccines, they do allot of good and have eradicated allot of illnesses that used to be big killers. I heard some of the concerns Miss Rozzo presented which are pure nonsense, about autism and other side effects any such claim have been disproved and I would rather my apprentice be autistic then her getting polio. However what I am skeptical to are the number of vaccines given at once. Miss Rozzo also presented some data on this and that data have turned out to be real. In Europe they vaccinate for between 9 and 13 illnesses in the child vaccination program, currently in USA most state vaccinate against 60 individual illnesses. In Europe they give kids one shot at most two in one session with months often years between vaccinations, the same as we did before 1983. Also the frequency of needle phobia is Europe is about 3 percent of the population, which was also the rate in USA before 1983 though now when several vaccination sessions have three or more shots are given on several of the planned vaccinations, more if the child in question have to catch up on any vaccines. After this change in the American vaccination program our percentage of needle phobia rose to 20 percent of the population, that is significant and it is a significant risk."
Darrian said firmly.
"It means that for ever ten kids that do through the vaccination program two will come out of it with a phobia that will make medical treatments for the rest of their life difficult, and I am not taking that risk with Cava, meaning this will not be a terrifying experience for her. Now like I said I am not saying I will not take her to Dr Lee I am saying that if she says stop I am not going to hold her down for her to get the rest of the shots."

'That he was.' Nicole replied, giving a little smile as she remembered a few of the tales about him. 'Little sad I never got to know him.'

"Well it is always good to have a relative to look up to even if you never met the man."
The Alchemist commented.

[Junkyard]

'Flares come pre-loaded with gun; once they're used, simply bin it.' Nicole said. 'I've got...' pulling a worn leather wallet from a pocket '...forty-five spare.'

'Flares come pre-loaded with gun; once they're used, simply bin it.' Nicole said. 'I've got...' pulling a worn leather wallet from a pocket '...forty-five spare.'

"If we add what I and the others have in change then we might be able to get two or three flares?"
Trina asked.
"That is not allot of weapons."
They muttered a bit nervously.

[Cabal Meeting]

"Yeah I see what you mean. I mostly did my media watching by myself so I don't really have experience with the group aspect of it. Are family movie nights a thing? I thought that was mostly a thing in sitcoms and family tv shows. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing them in real life, at least while I was in school. My family sure as hell didn't do them." Serge said with a slight frown.

"It is still common for families to watch things together from time to time but it is more common for everyone having their own device and watching what each person find interesting, my point is that if what is on the meny are low quality variety shows, documentaries about knitting and 30 year old sit coms, then chances are that at least younger members of a family would rather bring up Popcorn time on their phone than sit with their parents watching crap."
Bruce said plainly.
"The world have moved on."

"I'd probably just teleport around within the chantry. Wake up in the morning. Get out of bed. Snap my fingers..., Serge said giving a playful snap of his fingers as a demonstration, "....And appear in a chair in the common room. No paradox and no ruined dinners across the street. Unless I screw it up royally but let's not worry about that now."

"That sounds like a good way to loose whatever makes you human, if whatever you do, you do with magick, it is possible you know for those who study what is called Life Magick to no longer have any physical needs, they do not need to eat, shit, piss or anything else, they do not get itches, do not get physical pains, nothing and sure it is practical but most do not do this for in doing so they also loose something essential, they loose their humanity."
Bruce said and he shook his head.
"Also this Chantry protect against Dox but sooner or later you will fuck up a spell, and then you will get Paradox no matter where you are, just less of it than if sleepers see your magick."

"One of the many things I've learned in my artist's life." Serge said nodding enthusiastically. "Correct use of bright and warm colors in the right places can work wonders on how you feel about a certain picture. Making you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside or cold and clammy when you realize there's a lack of colors."

"I do not want to feel fuzzy and warm in the Node I want to feel that this is a holy place, like I do with the old inscribed rocks in there and the natural rock walls."
The Orphan said and he shook his head.

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