Re: Little Moments Between Steptember and November, Meetings and Endings Part 2 IC Thread 31

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Going to the Library]

"It is not like we have allot of money, and I could not get a new system every few years but I have a few, I guess my parents knew that us moving around so much meant I had few friends so I needed something to do."
Kyle commented.
"But I use emulators when I can't afford the games I want."

"Or old games you can't find nowadays." Serge added.

"Need for Speed Pro Street I like racing games."
Kyle said and smiled.
"You better hope I never get a real car from how I drive in games."
He joked.

"Of course it's a racing game. You know I think Anna had a fondness for racing games. Or Yu Die...or both." Serge said with a smile trying to remember exactly what it was.

"And after the types of drivers I've seen in New York, I doubt anything you could do would phase me." he added with a chuckle.

[Serge's Adventure]

'Speaking of stealing...' the large woman quipped, reaching forward and grabbing Serge by the coat collar as he tried to leave. 'Nice try, but off...'

"Ugh...I nearly got away with it too. Should've stayed quiet." Serge said with a smirk as he continued to walk forwards with Nicole's hand still grabbing the collar, pulling his arms through the coat sleeves and taking the coat off, leaving it in the women's hands.

(OOC: I was actually planning on doing the arm thing in the scene itself. But I'm cool with doing it offscreen if that's what you prefer.)

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Nicole] (Chantry)

'Original design had a battery and point so I could top up off the mains, but that goes into the shoulder-space.' Nicole replied, digging out a few what appeared to be chocolate of some form out of the crate and shoving them in her breast pocket. 'They've working on it, but I really don't want to have to be sliced up for new parts.' finishing off her drink - the last bits rather gloopy. 'But might have to. Before it gets too late.'

"Go into the shoulder and there be hard to hide then I assume?"
Fran asked then she nodded.
"Yeah I can imagine getting a new operation would really suk but if you are having trouble eating enough to keep the arm charged you might have to before something happens, though you would know better about that than me."

Wednesday? Seems fine to me. As long as both of us are still here.' ending with a little smile. 'I'll bring the beers.'

"Yeah let's make sure of that, if I am dying I am for sure not being taken out by a vampire."
Fran grumbled.
"Ah beer, good, that will fit meatloaf and mushed potatoes."

[Going to the Library]

"Or old games you can't find nowadays." Serge added.

"Yeah well there is ebay for that."
Kyle said and grinned.

"Of course it's a racing game. You know I think Anna had a fondness for racing games. Or Yu Die...or both." Serge said with a smile trying to remember exactly what it was.

"And after the types of drivers I've seen in New York, I doubt anything you could do would phase me." he added with a chuckle.

"The beauty of racing games is how many times you can crash into your opponents and just keep driving."
The young Hermetic said sounding amused.
"I take it you don't like racing games then? And who is Yu Die?"

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

'More that the prints assumed full limb loss, not a partial. And it was decided not to hack an undamaged upper arm off just for that.' giving a shrug. 'The "too late" bit is if body adapts to the new diet; like new Moms getting fatter after dropping - still "eating for two". I adapt to packing it in, then lose the pads...' shaking her head as she picked up the new rifle Nicole had bought at the gun show a few weeks before.

[Adley]

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

'That's the thing... my folks ain't like that... much more the old-school "everyone knows your business" small-town shit you see in old movies.' Nicole replied. 'Suppose that's what you get when the furthest away anyone ever moved to was Warwick. Thought everyone lived like that, me; having relatives dotted around town, everyone being a nosy bastard...' shaking her head. 'Fucking hated it at the time. But now, can see they also looked out for each other. Y'know, the "close ranks against Outsiders" and shit.'

He chuckled a little at the part about moving the furthest to Warwick. "Well, Boston is not really so far. But I suppose someone in Rhode Island would think of anything over half an hour's drive as far, and it usually is that with traffic. If your family is that large and ah...involved with one another, that will make it harder to keep your business private. There doesn't seem to be any option though than to at least make some attempt to reconnect, especially as you seem to want to do so."

[Cabal Meeting]

Colin nodded, "Later, then. And I think the difference is rather far from subtle, more like the difference between switching from fourth to fifth gear, and from fifth gear to reverse..."

He nodded. "Perhaps it will help us to refine our theories."

He smiled, "The sand is excretions from an Avatar as it slowly cleanses itself - so innocuous in appearance, but anathema to the Fallen, as it is a physical manifestation of the reversal of the Caul's work... I have no idea how many possible applications it might have, but the merest touch can induce remarkably powerful memories. For a normal Mage, pleasant ones, of better days when one felt safe and comfortable. For a Fallen... bugger if I know, but if I were to guess, recollections of the Caul."

"Hrm....how odd."

"Mind, Soul and Body are all interconnected. When one is effected you see ripples of it everywhere else." Serge said with a nod. "Adley's right though. Better to have a little bit of hope rather than give up entirely. Every single attempt brings something new and who know? You guys might be the ones to finally do it."

"They are interconnected yes, that is rather why we are able to do magick. We're awakened to that connection, so to speak. But unfortunately for those with inverted avatars, that means they are influenced by dark urges."

He carefully placed the sand back in the safe and locked it, giving the dial a little spin, "Indeed, it was perhaps not right to withhold the state of her Avatar from us like that... but as an officer, I can understand how and why the decision was made, even if I respectfully disagree with it... and as horrid as what was done to her as a result was, it did reveal a number of very important things... it shed a light under several rocks, and showed us dangers we did not yet know about. There are many things we know now that might yet be in the dark if not for our bringing Beatrice to the manor..."

He frowned, "As for how some widderslaintes are apparently not the little monsters common wisdom would assume they are... it seems increasingly likely that depends on their reason for Falling in the first place, and how thoroughly and for how long they were actively driven toward further corruption by other, older Fallen afterwards. It would appear that even the worst monsters among the Nephandi can find some sort of soft spot for an apprentice, and some can't allow themselves or others to abuse their, hm, children."

"I can understand why the Chief might withhold that information from us but even so it was not right."
The other Orphan said.
"And yes I guess even with horrible things happening then good things can come of it but that do not mean it was worth it...I doubt I will ever be able to get Bee's screams out of my head and I was all the way out in the hallway when it happened."
He said darkly.

"I suppose so, but I can't help but think that her pain may have been prevented if we had known. At any rate, we are where we are now..."

Bruce nodded at that.
"I agree we have to try, and I think that the body, mind and soul fitting together is the reason why most widderslainte are corrupted in mind as well as soul, another indication that the soul is simply a part of the mind."
The Orphan commented.

"Not necessarily. If that were so, I should be able to use spirit ars to affect the mind, and this does not seem to be the case. For instance, amongst the denizens of the umbra there are beings without material bodies that are pure ephemera.  We call these umbrood or spirits and they have various amounts of what we might call minds from animal-like to beyond our conception and beings without spirits existing /only/ as mind called Intelligences. These are all levels of vibrations, which naturally can affect each other, that are part of their being-ness. Humans and some would also say animals of the material world exist in a most interesting combination. We are an intersection of the vibrations on the physical plane, the mental plane and the spiritual plane. As Gifted, we also carry the spark of an awakened avatar that is at an even higher vibrational level than our human souls. Even spirits cannot touch this part of us, it is at such a different vibration. All of these things do affect one another, but that does not mean one is the other, per se. So I have heard much that the pineal gland to the Technocrats is the source of the Gift. There seems to be some truth that there is a connection through the vessel there, but that does not mean it /is/ the avatar. It is like pointing at the moon - the finger that points isn't the moon, so stop looking at the finger. Other belief systems and mystic lore also place importance to that point on the head region as an energy center. That said, unification and union of all these parts into a cohesive whole is often a goal of many esoteric philosophies, the sum of them allowing us to become more of any of these vibrations so to speak. "

He nodded, "You may have heard of the Mary's Serafina, or at least, you should be able to look the story up... It would appear the exploration ship drifted into the Caul undimension by accident... it is quite an unpleasant place, and it was not a good location to discover the ability to scry through time... As for how I plan on cleansing it, well, first, I need to read up on the theoretical work on Resonances, then I'll probably need some more capable assistance in doing the actual work - but I think it might be possible to crystallize Resonance in a permanent manner, somewhat similar to how one can create Tass. In a gross oversimplification of one of my hypotheses, it might be possible to run Quintessence through the ship in a manner so as to deliberately resonate it and turn it into highly unpleasant Tass - sort of like a sponge. But again, much theoretical work, and perhaps a fair bit of practice with less volatile Resonances."

He frowned. "How do you know it was an accident? Also that's where that first started? Hrm..."

"I have not heard about a ship so named but I can look into it. The Caul dimension though that sounds really nasty, I wonder what is there."
Bruce commented and frowned.

"Bruce, I have to caution you that sometimes, human curiosity is damning and somethings are not meant for us to see for our own good. One peek in such a place has driven some mad or killed them outright if they did not end up Falling."

"Hum I have heard something about that, Master Sharaya ha a guest over a few months ago, one of his brothers, a Akashic/ Virtual Adept dual Tradition member. I spoke with him and the conversation went to Paradox and he said that his first Mentor, an Akashic named Madame Wu could crystallize Paradox in her system and create eel like beings out of it and she then kept the eels in an aquarium until they all escaped and re entered her at once, which was not good, and I mean it is Paradox not Resonance but still it is a form of crystallization, might be worth looking into for your plan at least."

He raised an eyebrow at that. "That...sounds dangerous."

He frowned, "Actually, I do believe there are such laws in place, but with few advocates for the Fallen, especially those who are not Traditionalists in the first place, well... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

"If we have laws like that they are not being used and it is nto just Fallen, a friend of mine got arrested on Horizon for a minor offense, he was kept in chains, was beaten and when he tried to tell them he is allergic to paprika he was not heard an was beaten again for not eating the food offered, he was pretty badly traumatized."
Bruce commented and frowned.

"Yes, that is true...if no one sees it happen it is hard to prove it did. Our legal system could do with an update."

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

I where having a lesson but we are mostly done, come right in."
Thomas said he did not answer the question on whatever or not e was well.
"I can make a small flame in my hand now and hold it for thirthy seconds."
The boy said and he gave a rare smile clearly proud of this acomplishment.

"Congratulations," he said to Thomas and walked into the office, shutting the door behind him.

Joakim stood and he walked around the desk.
"Yes we where allmost done, please come in Mr Roth Hicks."
The old hedge wizard said.
"Can I offer you a cup of coffee?"

"Actually if you have some water that would be good, sir. Thank you," he said. "I hope you are well, sir. I'm sorry to interrupt, I wanted to say that I am grateful for your assistance with that matter, which has been...fulfilled," he said, carefully. "And that I would like to thank your spirit friends for their help when I was last here. I left with you the marble, and they said for me to bury it anywhere in the city limits. I assume that the grounds of the chantry would be acceptable."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Nicole] (Chantry)

'More that the prints assumed full limb loss, not a partial. And it was decided not to hack an undamaged upper arm off just for that.' giving a shrug. 'The "too late" bit is if body adapts to the new diet; like new Moms getting fatter after dropping - still "eating for two". I adapt to packing it in, then lose the pads...' shaking her head as she picked up the new rifle Nicole had bought at the gun show a few weeks before.

"Yeah that would be bad to remove health parts, and I get it so the problem is the same as why many who have lost weight have a problem keeping the weight of, so you have a choice to make then whatever or not to get the more efficient pads or not before that happens."
Fran said and she frowned.
"A tricky choice that."

[Cabal Meeting]

"They are interconnected yes, that is rather why we are able to do magick. We're awakened to that connection, so to speak. But unfortunately for those with inverted avatars, that means they are influenced by dark urges."

Bruce grunted at that.

"I suppose so, but I can't help but think that her pain may have been prevented if we had known. At any rate, we are where we are now..."

"Well there is not that much we can do about that now, only try to help her back on her feet."
The Orphan said.
"There is no point in dwelling on the past."

"Not necessarily. If that were so, I should be able to use spirit ars to affect the mind, and this does not seem to be the case. For instance, amongst the denizens of the umbra there are beings without material bodies that are pure ephemera. We call these umbrood or spirits and they have various amounts of what we might call minds from animal-like to beyond our conception and beings without spirits existing /only/ as mind called Intelligences. These are all levels of vibrations, which naturally can affect each other, that are part of their being-ness. Humans and some would also say animals of the material world exist in a most interesting combination. We are an intersection of the vibrations on the physical plane, the mental plane and the spiritual plane.

"Yeah well the definitions of magick tend to be man made, there are those system that mix mind and spirit as well, it seams to me that what you say Adley are your truth from your Paradigm but there are no scientific proof that it is so, and I have heard that Technomancers who get their Avatars hurt can be helped with regular painkillers since to them their Avatars are a part of their brain."
Bruce presented.
"No vibrations or anything, just a part of their brains."

As Gifted, we also carry the spark of an awakened avatar that is at an even higher vibrational level than our human souls. Even spirits cannot touch this part of us, it is at such a different vibration. All of these things do affect one another, but that does not mean one is the other, per se. So I have heard much that the pineal gland to the Technocrats is the source of the Gift. There seems to be some truth that there is a connection through the vessel there, but that does not mean it /is/ the avatar. It is like pointing at the moon - the finger that points isn't the moon, so stop looking at the finger. Other belief systems and mystic lore also place importance to that point on the head region as an energy center. That said, unification and union of all these parts into a cohesive whole is often a goal of many esoteric philosophies, the sum of them allowing us to become more of any of these vibrations so to speak. "

"Why would not spirits be able to touch Avatars we can touch them with the right training, touch them and even hurt them so why not spirits they are Ephemera as well?"
Bruce said then he frowned.
"I guess the question is whatever or not it would harm someone's magickal abilities if their pineal glans got harmed."
The Orphan asked he still looked rather doubtful.
"I hear what you are saying Adley but i am still not sure I buy it, that I buy that all of this is nto some part of my brain, that seam more logical to me."

"Bruce, I have to caution you that sometimes, human curiosity is damning and somethings are not meant for us to see for our own good. One peek in such a place has driven some mad or killed them outright if they did not end up Falling."

"Yeah I did not say I wanted to have a look."
Bruce said and he frowned again.
"I just asked Colin what he knew but no I would not want a look for myself."

He raised an eyebrow at that. "That...sounds dangerous."

"Apparently from this guy's story it was dangerous as when the eels escaped they all flew into Madame Wu at once, sending her into a Paradox realm, it was not plesant or so I hear."
The Artificer commented with a grunt.

"Yes, that is true...if no one sees it happen it is hard to prove it did. Our legal system could do with an update."

"Yeah...our justice system sure do need an update, but that will take time."
Bruce agreed with a nod.

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

"Congratulations," he said to Thomas and walked into the office, shutting the door behind him.

Thomas nodded at that and he seamed proud, almost happy.
"Thank you Sir."
He replied.

"Actually if you have some water that would be good, sir. Thank you," he said.

Joakim nodded and stood, he filled a glass of water from a pitcher and handed it to you.
"Of course Sodalis here you go."

"I hope you are well, sir. I'm sorry to interrupt, I wanted to say that I am grateful for your assistance with that matter, which has been...fulfilled," he said, carefully.

"Nothing to apologize for, we where just about done anyway."
Joakim said then he nodded.
"I am well Sodalis how are you?"
When you spoke about Carmon he god a look of deep sadness in his eyes.
"I see, I am glad it was taken care of as our guest wished it, he deserved that."
He said then looked at his apprentice.
"Thomas please go and practice the new gestures I taught you in your room and I will come over later and finish the lesson."
He said and his apprentice nodded.
"Okey Mentor."
He said before he gave you a bow and hurried to do his teacher's bidding. Joakim sat down in his chair heavily and drew a dep breath.
"Did it go...as well as it could?"
He asked once Thomas had left the office.

"And that I would like to thank your spirit friends for their help when I was last here. I left with you the marble, and they said for me to bury it anywhere in the city limits. I assume that the grounds of the chantry would be acceptable."

Joakim nodded and he went to his safe to retrieve the marble.
"Of course Sodalis, you can bury it anywhere on the Chantry grounds, just be careful of the Verbena's trees and herb garden."
He sai and he handed you the marble.

[Adley]

"Yeah well the definitions of magick tend to be man made, there are those system that mix mind and spirit as well, it seams to me that what you say Adley are your truth from your Paradigm but there are no scientific proof that it is so, and I have heard that Technomancers who get their Avatars hurt can be helped with regular painkillers since to them their Avatars are a part of their brain."
Bruce presented.
"No vibrations or anything, just a part of their brains."

"What we believe to be true is of course important, but there is more to it than that. Otherwise, the issue of the Nephandi would be much easier to solve, although truly unethical. They used to give lobotomies to people for medical problems, and that was terrible as well. But it seems to me that someone as awful as Jace would have tried that route, and yet widderslainte persist. I am not of course advocating for such treatment in any way."

"Why would not spirits be able to touch Avatars we can touch them with the right training, touch them and even hurt them so why not spirits they are Ephemera as well?"
Bruce said then he frowned.
"I guess the question is whatever or not it would harm someone's magickal abilities if their pineal glans got harmed."
The Orphan asked he still looked rather doubtful.
"I hear what you are saying Adley but i am still not sure I buy it, that I buy that all of this is nto some part of my brain, that seam more logical to me."

"I just told you, they are on different vibrational planes. They cannot. They have told me so themselves, various entities. I do believe it could harm someone's avatar or at least their ability to work magick, if such a thing was harmed though."

"Apparently from this guy's story it was dangerous as when the eels escaped they all flew into Madame Wu at once, sending her into a Paradox realm, it was not plesant or so I hear."
The Artificer commented with a grunt.

"She returned?"

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

Joakim nodded and stood, he filled a glass of water from a pitcher and handed it to you.
"Of course Sodalis here you go."

"Thank you," he said and took the glass.

"Nothing to apologize for, we where just about done anyway."
Joakim said then he nodded.
"I am well Sodalis how are you?"

"As well as one might be."

When you spoke about Carmon he god a look of deep sadness in his eyes. "I see, I am glad it was taken care of as our guest wished it, he deserved that."
He said then looked at his apprentice. "Thomas please go and practice the new gestures I taught you in your room and I will come over later and finish the lesson."
He said and his apprentice nodded. "Okey Mentor." He said before he gave you a bow and hurried to do his teacher's bidding. Joakim sat down in his chair heavily and drew a dep breath. "Did it go...as well as it could?"

He nodded back to Thomas and then waited until the apprentice made his way out of the room before answering. "Yes, sir. The rest of the material that you offered is with the Lady," he informed him, so he'd know where all the tass went. "Pardon I do not wish to go into details, but I am grateful for you understanding also."

Joakim nodded and he went to his safe to retrieve the marble. "Of course Sodalis, you can bury it anywhere on the Chantry grounds, just be careful of the Verbena's trees and herb garden." He sai and he handed you the marble.

"I will not bury it too close to any trees, though there may be some roots I won't be able to avoid. How far deep should it be placed?"

[Nicole Bouchard]

[RI Roadtrip]

Adley's Post:

'No, Boston ain't far... but far enough to make travelling expensive enough and chances are few if any will have any other reason to visit. Unlike, say Providence. So, much lower chances of the random "was just in the area" visit like in sitcoms.' Nicole replied, showing she'd done her homework. 'Anyway, what business would they see? I'm a mechanic. Unless they turn up while some shit is going down and I've broken out the guns - which would be a feat of bad luck - that's what they'll see. Not like I'm actually at home much anyways.'

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

'Other options too, all tricky.' Nicole replied, checking the rifle's action. 'Could improve gut efficiency, so get more from less. Or get a point and battery fitted...' drifting off, then giving a little harsh laugh.

'The Plus'es dilemma - what to work on next, and how? Now I know how those fuckers who have tons of plastic surgery feel.'

[Adley]

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

'No, Boston ain't far... but far enough to make travelling expensive enough and chances are few if any will have any other reason to visit. Unlike, say Providence. So, much lower chances of the random "was just in the area" visit like in sitcoms.' Nicole replied, showing she'd done her homework. 'Anyway, what business would they see? I'm a mechanic. Unless they turn up while some shit is going down and I've broken out the guns - which would be a feat of bad luck - that's what they'll see. Not like I'm actually at home much anyways.'

"Yes, if you were in Providence they could find reasons to see you more easily. If they happen to see you until then it would be highly unlikely, unless you go to places you know they frequent."

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Going to the Library]

"Yeah well there is ebay for that."
Kyle said and grinned.

"I don't think I've ever bought anything online." Serge admitted "Was never really a fan of putting my information online."

"The beauty of racing games is how many times you can crash into your opponents and just keep driving."
The young Hermetic said sounding amused.
"I take it you don't like racing games then? And who is Yu Die?"

"Racing games always bored me. The cars looked cool and all the crashing and smashing is fun but at the end of the day it always feels like I'm just running laps over and over and over until someone wins. No courageous heros, or dastardly enemies or special attacks, or giant 10 foot bosses threatening to destroy the world." Serge said with a smirk as he took anotehr sip of his hot chocolate.

"Yu Die is an Akashic. I think she was apprentice to Master Wong and sister to Dr. Lee. Met her yesterday while I was watching over some of the children."

(OOC: Hey Anja. How long would it take for Serge to decorate the rubber skin so that it completely matched that tattoos on Nicole's real arm? I planned on using rotes to help assist in this project [for remembering exactly what her tattoos looked like and for extreme precision while copying them in the drawing]. Could it be done in a few hours or would it take a couple of days?)

[Nicole Bouchard]

[RI Roadtrip]

Adley's Post:

'That's the problem - all my intel is way out of date. How can you say where my little sister hangs out when I last knew her when a kid?' ending with a sound halfway between a sigh and a grunt.

[Rubber skin: remembering Nicole's made a cast of the arm [can get 3-D perspective], provided a couple of spare skins [to practice] and surely will suggest to Serge he takes a series of good photos of her left arm [so he can work when she's not there].]

[Warpmind]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

He nodded. "Perhaps it will help us to refine our theories."

Colin nodded, "Or give us a few detours. In any case, every hypothesis is worth investigating, if nothing else then to rule out bad alternatives."

"They are interconnected yes, that is rather why we are able to do magick. We're awakened to that connection, so to speak. But unfortunately for those with inverted avatars, that means they are influenced by dark urges."

Bruce nodded at that.
"I agree we have to try, and I think that the body, mind and soul fitting together is the reason why most widderslainte are corrupted in mind as well as soul, another indication that the soul is simply a part of the mind."
The Orphan commented.

"Not necessarily. If that were so, I should be able to use spirit ars to affect the mind, and this does not seem to be the case. For instance, amongst the denizens of the umbra there are beings without material bodies that are pure ephemera. We call these umbrood or spirits and they have various amounts of what we might call minds from animal-like to beyond our conception and beings without spirits existing /only/ as mind called Intelligences. These are all levels of vibrations, which naturally can affect each other, that are part of their being-ness. Humans and some would also say animals of the material world exist in a most interesting combination. We are an intersection of the vibrations on the physical plane, the mental plane and the spiritual plane. As Gifted, we also carry the spark of an awakened avatar that is at an even higher vibrational level than our human souls. Even spirits cannot touch this part of us, it is at such a different vibration. All of these things do affect one another, but that does not mean one is the other, per se. So I have heard much that the pineal gland to the Technocrats is the source of the Gift. There seems to be some truth that there is a connection through the vessel there, but that does not mean it /is/ the avatar. It is like pointing at the moon - the finger that points isn't the moon, so stop looking at the finger. Other belief systems and mystic lore also place importance to that point on the head region as an energy center. That said, unification and union of all these parts into a cohesive whole is often a goal of many esoteric philosophies, the sum of them allowing us to become more of any of these vibrations so to speak. "

"Yeah well the definitions of magick tend to be man made, there are those system that mix mind and spirit as well, it seams to me that what you say Adley are your truth from your Paradigm but there are no scientific proof that it is so, and I have heard that Technomancers who get their Avatars hurt can be helped with regular painkillers since to them their Avatars are a part of their brain."
Bruce presented.
"No vibrations or anything, just a part of their brains."

"What we believe to be true is of course important, but there is more to it than that. Otherwise, the issue of the Nephandi would be much easier to solve, although truly unethical. They used to give lobotomies to people for medical problems, and that was terrible as well. But it seems to me that someone as awful as Jace would have tried that route, and yet widderslainte persist. I am not of course advocating for such treatment in any way."

"Why would not spirits be able to touch Avatars we can touch them with the right training, touch them and even hurt them so why not spirits they are Ephemera as well?"
Bruce said then he frowned.
"I guess the question is whatever or not it would harm someone's magickal abilities if their pineal glans got harmed."
The Orphan asked he still looked rather doubtful.
"I hear what you are saying Adley but i am still not sure I buy it, that I buy that all of this is nto some part of my brain, that seam more logical to me."

"I just told you, they are on different vibrational planes. They cannot. They have told me so themselves, various entities. I do believe it could harm someone's avatar or at least their ability to work magick, if such a thing was harmed though."

He frowned, "It's a bit of a complicated subject, and wiser minds than ours have spent centuries debating the topic. I sincerely don't believe we'll get any closer to an absolute truth here today... but, at least we all know where one another stands on the subject, right?"

"Hrm....how odd."

"That sounds rather fantastic but if it can be proven to be what you claim I guess it could make your apprentice and the Chief's as well, if there is hope a Fallen soul can be cleanse then we can't continue destroying them on general principles right?"
Bruce asked.

He frowned, "Well, there are some... political aspects to that, too. I'm rather afraid the 'general principles' will stay for some time yet - it's going to be quite hard to prove the possibility to those who profit from it being impossible..."

"I can understand why the Chief might withhold that information from us but even so it was not right."
The other Orphan said.
"And yes I guess even with horrible things happening then good things can come of it but that do not mean it was worth it...I doubt I will ever be able to get Bee's screams out of my head and I was all the way out in the hallway when it happened."
He said darkly.

"I suppose so, but I can't help but think that her pain may have been prevented if we had known. At any rate, we are where we are now..."

"Well there is not that much we can do about that now, only try to help her back on her feet."
The Orphan said.
"There is no point in dwelling on the past."

He nodded, "Her pain might have been prevented, but what might the cost have been? We might not have been... aware of the Italians' involvement in everything, for example..."

"Yeah and then we have those like the bastard that corrupted our villa Node, he gutted his own apprentice."
Bruce commented.
"Then again...even that bastard had a relationship with Lisa Larson and he loved her or so I hear, perhaps there is a little bit of light in all of them though in some it is really, really tiny."

He frowned, "I find it hard to so thoroughly condemn Ojan for that, though - the man had been shot with Primium, and was slowly dying from sepsis... A desperate individual will go quite far if there's a chance to survive; who's to say any of us would do much better in a similar situation? I hope, of course, that such a situation never comes up."

He frowned. "How do you know it was an accident? Also that's where that first started? Hrm..."

He shook his head, "I cast my first intentional scrying on board the ship, and saw glimpses of the chaos on board as they were... entering the non-dimension. They might have entered on purpose in the sense that they explored an unknown phenomenon, but none of them intended to end up where they did... I had prophetic visions before that, in part courtesy of my future self, or so it would seem, but that trip was the first time I peered across time unassisted. And, unfortunately, quite unprepared, as well."

"I have not heard about a ship so named but I can look into it. The Caul dimension though that sounds really nasty, I wonder what is there."
Bruce commented and frowned.
"Hum I have heard something about that, Master Sharaya ha a guest over a few months ago, one of his brothers, a Akashic/ Virtual Adept dual Tradition member. I spoke with him and the conversation went to Paradox and he said that his first Mentor, an Akashic named Madame Wu could crystallize Paradox in her system and create eel like beings out of it and she then kept the eels in an aquarium until they all escaped and re entered her at once, which was not good, and I mean it is Paradox not Resonance but still it is a form of crystallization, might be worth looking into for your plan at least."

"Bruce, I have to caution you that sometimes, human curiosity is damning and somethings are not meant for us to see for our own good. One peek in such a place has driven some mad or killed them outright if they did not end up Falling."

"Yeah I did not say I wanted to have a look."
Bruce said and he frowned again.
"I just asked Colin what he knew but no I would not want a look for myself."

He grimaced, "The Caul... not-dimension is a timeless, spaceless place of endless pain, torturing your mind and body as it seeks to tear your soul apart and put it back together with all the bits wrung and twisted... It takes an eternity, and then you're... reborn as a mockery of the Mage you were..."
He shook his head and frowned, "Well, that's the usual result, anyway - many die instead, and then there's me. And from what I know, it's the one thing worse than Gilgul, but the Fallen will never admit that to someone who hasn't been through it yet, I think..."

He raised an eyebrow at that. "That...sounds dangerous."

"Apparently from this guy's story it was dangerous as when the eels escaped they all flew into Madame Wu at once, sending her into a Paradox realm, it was not plesant or so I hear."
The Artificer commented with a grunt.

"She returned?"

He frowned, "Poor woman... Yes, I am given to understand both Paradox and Resonance can be set aside for some time, but there's as yet no method to be permanently rid of it - sooner or later, you'll have to reabsorb it, and if you've set aside too much... well, it will not be healthy by any definition."

"If we have laws like that they are not being used and it is nto just Fallen, a friend of mine got arrested on Horizon for a minor offense, he was kept in chains, was beaten and when he tried to tell them he is allergic to paprika he was not heard an was beaten again for not eating the food offered, he was pretty badly traumatized."
Bruce commented and frowned.

"Yes, that is true...if no one sees it happen it is hard to prove it did. Our legal system could do with an update."

"Yeah...our justice system sure do need an update, but that will take time."
Bruce agreed with a nod.

He frowned, "It won't have to take much time - but it would have to take one hell of a crisis to force abrupt change. We... may yet see that."

"I thought we where talking about ears, no we can nto have nipple piercings on kids no not do I think that is really popular but five year old girls do get their ears pierced. Most piercing studios have age limits but usually not for ear piercings as long as the kid is old enough to want earrings themselves, simply because if they don't do it the parents will go to a hairdresser and that is never a good idea."
Bruce said and he frowned.

He frowned and nodded, "Indeed... God, I hope I never turn into one of those parents..."

[Abandoned Junkyard]

"Good, I have gotten the pictures of the junkyard and I am sneding reinforcements."
Jeffry said.
"I also spoke with Mr Lenoe and he said that the Prince of the Massasa do not only know about what happens at the junkyard he gave the ones running it the territory. From what he said the junkyard used to be the domain of a group called the Anarchs, and whoever they are they worked with the locals, yes at times they fed of them but always made sure the homeless inhabitants where safe and protected but after some trouble the Prince confiscated the junkyard and placed it in the hans of a man named Jonathan Livington, a Ventrue which I bleieve is one of their groups, who now run the junkyard as a place for those who can not find ehm food, they pay Livington and then he takes them to the junkyard to feed, or take blood from the inhabitants and bring it to his customers, the place is basically run as a form of Massassa resturant."
The old Hermetic said sounding angry, probably his coffee where getting hotter as he spoke.
"As for the spirit, Bobby eh, well that he is on our side is a boon indeed."

He frowned, "Well, bugger, suddenly the whole affair took on a few more political complications than I would have preferred... Still, we can't let that prevent us from doing the right thing; this restaurant is getting shut down, the kitchen is unhygienic and the owner needs to be... sent a message. To sum up, as we learned in Chicago, Anarchs are a group not following the Prince's lead, as I understand it, consisting of renegades from various Clans, while the Ventrue are a Clan apparently consisting of very old-school nobility - the 'let them eat cake' variety, mostly. In any case, dealing with Livington will have to wait until later - first priority will have to be the dinner guests. On that subject, while I have taken charge here for now, who have you assigned as leader when the reinforcements arrive? Just to make sure there's no confusion over rank or authority?"

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

(Cabal meeting)

"What we believe to be true is of course important, but there is more to it than that. Otherwise, the issue of the Nephandi would be much easier to solve, although truly unethical. They used to give lobotomies to people for medical problems, and that was terrible as well. But it seems to me that someone as awful as Jace would have tried that route, and yet widderslainte persist. I am not of course advocating for such treatment in any way."

"Well lobotomies do not destroy the pineal gland, however we have found poor apprentices who have been Gilgulled by the Union at times an they have brain injuries."
Bruce said then he frowned.
"But no doing that to someone is not ethical, then again either is that damned ritual."

"I just told you, they are on different vibrational planes. They cannot. They have told me so themselves, various entities. I do believe it could harm someone's avatar or at least their ability to work magick, if such a thing was harmed though."

"Spirits are odd."
Bruce exclaimed.
"But I guess it is good they can not paw on our Avatars and yes I imagine it would harm our abilities if our brains where harmed, well one more reason to take good care of one's brain."

"She returned?"

"Not yet she have, for all we know she is either dead or still stuck in that Paradox realm, which do suck."
Bruce replied and shook his head.

He frowned, "It's a bit of a complicated subject, and wiser minds than ours have spent centuries debating the topic. I sincerely don't believe we'll get any closer to an absolute truth here today... but, at least we all know where one another stands on the subject, right?"

Bruce nodded at that.
"I guess it is hard to know for sure so all we can do is debate our various viewpoints on the topic."
The large Orphan said with a shrug.

He frowned, "Well, there are some... political aspects to that, too. I'm rather afraid the 'general principles' will stay for some time yet - it's going to be quite hard to prove the possibility to those who profit from it being impossible..."

"Yeah you are probably right Colin but that suck and it is bloody unfair."
Bruce grumbled.

He nodded, "Her pain might have been prevented, but what might the cost have been? We might not have been... aware of the Italians' involvement in everything, for example..."

"The cost would be worth it to keep Bee safe, I am not agreeing to sacrifice her for the so called greater good!"
Bruce exclaimed.

He frowned, "I find it hard to so thoroughly condemn Ojan for that, though - the man had been shot with Primium, and was slowly dying from sepsis... A desperate individual will go quite far if there's a chance to survive; who's to say any of us would do much better in a similar situation? I hope, of course, that such a situation never comes up."

"You would slaughter your new apprentice or Anna if you got desperate enough?"
Bruce asked an he raised an eyebrow.
"I find it hard to believe you would do that unless your mind got completely addled."

He shook his head, "I cast my first intentional scrying on board the ship, and saw glimpses of the chaos on board as they were... entering the non-dimension. They might have entered on purpose in the sense that they explored an unknown phenomenon, but none of them intended to end up where they did... I had prophetic visions before that, in part courtesy of my future self, or so it would seem, but that trip was the first time I peered across time unassisted. And, unfortunately, quite unprepared, as well."

"That sounds bloody unpleasant, this seam to be a habit for you Colin to develop new magickal abilities in traumatic ways, you might want to stop that habit."
The Artificer grumbled as he glanced over at his Cabalmate.

He grimaced, "The Caul... not-dimension is a timeless, spaceless place of endless pain, torturing your mind and body as it seeks to tear your soul apart and put it back together with all the bits wrung and twisted... It takes an eternity, and then you're... reborn as a mockery of the Mage you were..."
He shook his head and frowned, "Well, that's the usual result, anyway - many die instead, and then there's me. And from what I know, it's the one thing worse than Gilgul, but the Fallen will never admit that to someone who hasn't been through it yet, I think..."

"Well shit, why would anyone ever go through something like that. Just hearing it described is nightmare fuel enough."
Bruce said and he frowned.
"Remind me never to become a Nephandus, remind me with a bullet if need be!"

He frowned, "Poor woman... Yes, I am given to understand both Paradox and Resonance can be set aside for some time, but there's as yet no method to be permanently rid of it - sooner or later, you'll have to reabsorb it, and if you've set aside too much... well, it will not be healthy by any definition."

"I have heard some Masters of Prime are able to slowly remove Paradox from their system and convert it to Quintessence but that is not easy."
The Orphan said.
"And then there is the method where you carve solidified Paradox out of someone's Avatar which just sound really unpleasant."

He frowned, "It won't have to take much time - but it would have to take one hell of a crisis to force abrupt change. We... may yet see that."

"Yeah a crisis might do it, but it is not the best way to get change."
Bruce said and frowned.
"I just hope the Traditions will survive all this shit."

He frowned and nodded, "Indeed... God, I hope I never turn into one of those parents..."

"The kind of parent who let your five year old have earrings or do not let your five year old have earrings?"
Bruce asked.
"Anna though seam to have earrings enough already, and a lip piercing as well. I saw her in the hallway earlier, cute kid."

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

"Thank you," he said and took the glass.

Joakim nodded at that.
"No problem."

"As well as one might be."

The old hedge wizard gave you a tired smile and he nodded.
"In the situation that is all we can hope for Sodalis, for any of us."

He nodded back to Thomas and then waited until the apprentice made his way out of the room before answering. "Yes, sir. The rest of the material that you offered is with the Lady," he informed him, so he'd know where all the tass went. "Pardon I do not wish to go into details, but I am grateful for you understanding also."

"And neither should you Sodalis, what you shared with Carmon during his last moments where private between the two of you, it is not something you should share. I am glad the Tass was helpful."
Joakim said simply.
"I know this must be hard on you, if you need something let me know."

"I will not bury it too close to any trees, though there may be some roots I won't be able to avoid. How far deep should it be placed?"

"You can ask one of the Verbena to show where the roots run, unless you have the ability to feel such things yourself, as for how deep four or nine are good numbers for earth, but whatever that is four or nine centimeters, inches or feet is up to you."
Joakim explained.

[Nicole] (Chantry)

'Other options too, all tricky.' Nicole replied, checking the rifle's action. 'Could improve gut efficiency, so get more from less. Or get a point and battery fitted...' drifting off, then giving a little harsh laugh.

"Hum, well it is always good to have some options."
Fran said.
"It seams you have some things to figure out on whatever or not you want to continue to improve your arm, with the hassle that might bring or eave it as is and be happy with it as is."

'The Plus'es dilemma - what to work on next, and how? Now I know how those fuckers who have tons of plastic surgery feel.'

"Well at least with you further operations have a practical function rather than getting your nose a little bit more perfect."
Fran said.
"Not that I have anything against plastic surgery but I would be so pissed if I paid that much for a nose you and then I got hit in the face the next fight I was in flushing all that money down the drain."

[Going to the Library]

"I don't think I've ever bought anything online." Serge admitted "Was never really a fan of putting my information online."

"I get a pre paid VISA card and just have things shipped to a post box address that is fairly safe."
Kyle said and shrugged.

"Racing games always bored me. The cars looked cool and all the crashing and smashing is fun but at the end of the day it always feels like I'm just running laps over and over and over until someone wins. No courageous heros, or dastardly enemies or special attacks, or giant 10 foot bosses threatening to destroy the world." Serge said with a smirk as he took anotehr sip of his hot chocolate.

"Well running around in laps tend to be exactly what racing games are about, some of the have special attacks though but most of the do not have allot of fighting or storylines. Everyone have different tastes though, when I get my stuff from home I can show you some non racing games on the PSP."
Kyle said as he had some more cocoa and wiped whipped cream of his nose.

"Yu Die is an Akashic. I think she was apprentice to Master Wong and sister to Dr. Lee. Met her yesterday while I was watching over some of the children."

"Ah I see, I am sure she is nice."
The young Hermetic said and nodded.

(OOC: I think a rubber sleeve is easier to work on than living skin so probably he should be able to do so in some hours, perhaps half of the time it took to create the tattoo on the other arm.)

[Abandoned Junkyard]

He frowned, "Well, bugger, suddenly the whole affair took on a few more political complications than I would have preferred... Still, we can't let that prevent us from doing the right thing; this restaurant is getting shut down, the kitchen is unhygienic and the owner needs to be... sent a message.

"Agreed, I have no problem with Massassa feeding on sleepers as long as they do not harm them, the way I understand it at this ehm...restaurant the residents are being fed on until they die, or they get kidnapped and drained we can not turn out backs on that, even if the ramifications of such an attack might be undesirable."
The old Hermetic said and he still sounded angry about what the vampires where doing.
"This is the kind of things that caused the formation of the Order of Reason in the first place, Awakened beings abusing and exploiting sleepers left and right."
He added and then came a long flow of words in Greek which Hellenic mothers probably did not teach their children.

To sum up, as we learned in Chicago, Anarchs are a group not following the Prince's lead, as I understand it, consisting of renegades from various Clans, while the Ventrue are a Clan apparently consisting of very old-school nobility - the 'let them eat cake' variety, mostly.

"Hum...well that explains the change in how the homeless residents are treated with the change of ownership. It amaze me at time how cruel the powerful can be to those they consider less than them."
Jeffry said darkly.

In any case, dealing with Livington will have to wait until later - first priority will have to be the dinner guests. On that subject, while I have taken charge here for now, who have you assigned as leader when the reinforcements arrive? Just to make sure there's no confusion over rank or authority?"

"Agreed though if this is organized we will probably eventually have to deal with the head of the business as well, a strong message that this restaurant is no longer safe might be enough to get other Massasa from going back to the junkyard."
The old Hermetic agreed.
"Adeptus Majora Gottschalk will be the ranking Chantry member sent but she might assign you our Miss Bouchard to lead the actual strike since she do not have much experience with combat."
Jeffry explained.
"In any case the team should soon leave Steelhaven and should be with you soon."

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

'Was talking more about the...' wrinkled frown of concentration '-whole mindset that your body is a thing which you can change and shape out of choice, rather than the normal "you are what you are".' giving the rifle's strap a tug, checking it was secure.

'Which might be another reason why that Rozzo might be pissed with me. Is an "Adamist".' digging in the crate and locating a small, battered pair of folding binoculars.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Nicole] (Chantry)

'Was talking more about the...' wrinkled frown of concentration '-whole mindset that your body is a thing which you can change and shape out of choice, rather than the normal "you are what you are".' giving the rifle's strap a tug, checking it was secure.

"I guess that is hard for me to understand as a problem, for to me this body of mine are just a meat suit, sure it is a meat suit I am fond of and I like expressing myself with it and keeping it in good order, but all since I Awakened when I helped my brother die I have felt that me, the I, the one I am is not this body, it is just a tool for the real me to experience the world in I do not identify with it, and after my initiation when I died and experienced the shadowlands this sense have only grown. I am not this flesh so changing the flesh would not change who I am."
Fran said and looked at you.
"And if you don't believe in the soul as such, would you not say that your mind is you, your brain is you, and that the rest is there so the brain can work and interact with others, would not changing your body to become more like you want it, the way your mind want it make your body more you and not less?"
She asked as she looked at you.

'Which might be another reason why that Rozzo might be pissed with me. Is an "Adamist".' digging in the crate and locating a small, battered pair of folding binoculars.

"Could be, I mean Verbena and Sons of Ether have not traditionally been good friends so it could be that, in fact the Verbena do not go that well with the Adepts either."
Fran said.
"But hey it might not even be you she is pissed at it could be the vampires."

[Warpmind]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

"Spirits are odd."
Bruce exclaimed.
"But I guess it is good they can not paw on our Avatars and yes I imagine it would harm our abilities if our brains where harmed, well one more reason to take good care of one's brain."

Colin nodded, "They are, and there's always good reason to take good care of your brain."

Bruce nodded at that.
"I guess it is hard to know for sure so all we can do is debate our various viewpoints on the topic."
The large Orphan said with a shrug.

He nodded.

"Yeah you are probably right Colin but that suck and it is bloody unfair."
Bruce grumbled.

He sighed, "So it is..."

"The cost would be worth it to keep Bee safe, I am not agreeing to sacrifice her for the so called greater good!"
Bruce exclaimed.

He pondered, "Would the cost be worth it? Keep in mind, with what happened, Beatrice will get a retrial, overturning the conditions of her previous sentence, and with the current precedent, I am quite certain her stay of execution will remain as she is Master Nassa's apprentice. If I could take the pain for her, I would in a heartbeat, but sometimes... well, perhaps we all needed a reminder of how horrible the ritual is; all the stronger our motivation for seeing it fall out of favour."

"You would slaughter your new apprentice or Anna if you got desperate enough?"
Bruce asked an he raised an eyebrow.
"I find it hard to believe you would do that unless your mind got completely addled."

He frowned, "I can't say for absolutely certain I would not... Keep in mind, the man was suffering from sepsis; last I checked, symptoms include high fever, which is known to cause hallucinations and irrational behaviour. So the term 'completely addled' might well apply. I would like to think I would stay in full control of my faculties unto the last, though... At the very least, my Avatar has made something of a habit of taking the reins when I am unable to, which would probably serve to protect everyone around me..."

"That sounds bloody unpleasant, this seam to be a habit for you Colin to develop new magickal abilities in traumatic ways, you might want to stop that habit."
The Artificer grumbled as he glanced over at his Cabalmate.

He grimaced, then chuckled, "Well, I guess that missile to the face simply set the trend... My Avatar grew stronger when I was attempted gilgulled by a Nephanda, and again when I tore down the Caul from within... Well, some understanding has come along less unpleasantly; I figured out how to manipulate raw Quintessence into my meta-spell when I saw the Quintessence flows into a portal leading to the Umbral Port, and I figured out how to reach across great distances over a cup of tea... so it's not all been terrible experiences, thank goodness."

"Well shit, why would anyone ever go through something like that. Just hearing it described is nightmare fuel enough."
Bruce said and he frowned.
"Remind me never to become a Nephandus, remind me with a bullet if need be!"

He pondered, "To save a loved one from unending torture... because you've been duped into associating with the Fallen, and the punishment is to have your Avatar flayed, regardless of whether or not you knew you were dealing with Nephandi... the Fallen have a lot of experience in getting under Traditionalists' skin like that. Or Technocrats' skin, for that matter."

"Not yet she have, for all we know she is either dead or still stuck in that Paradox realm, which do suck."
Bruce replied and shook his head.

He frowned, "Let us hope she's been lucky enough to pass on and reincarnate. Perhaps her next life will not be as casual with Paradox..."

"I have heard some Masters of Prime are able to slowly remove Paradox from their system and convert it to Quintessence but that is not easy."
The Orphan said.
"And then there is the method where you carve solidified Paradox out of someone's Avatar which just sound really unpleasant."

He nodded, "There's also the option of deliberately triggering a Paradox backlash, which sounds quite as unpleasant... but might be safer in the long run, so long as you can do it when the dosage is small..."

"Yeah a crisis might do it, but it is not the best way to get change."
Bruce said and frowned.
"I just hope the Traditions will survive all this shit."

He nodded, "We will survive what comes... We must."

"The kind of parent who let your five year old have earrings or do not let your five year old have earrings?"
Bruce asked.
"Anna though seam to have earrings enough already, and a lip piercing as well. I saw her in the hallway earlier, cute kid."

He smiled wryly, "The kind who makes their toddlers have piercings. Any children of mine who wants jewelry will get clip-on ear pieces until they're at least ten."

[Abandoned Junkyard]

"Agreed, I have no problem with Massassa feeding on sleepers as long as they do not harm them, the way I understand it at this ehm...restaurant the residents are being fed on until they die, or they get kidnapped and drained we can not turn out backs on that, even if the ramifications of such an attack might be undesirable."
The old Hermetic said and he still sounded angry about what the vampires where doing.
"This is the kind of things that caused the formation of the Order of Reason in the first place, Awakened beings abusing and exploiting sleepers left and right."
He added and then came a long flow of words in Greek which Hellenic mothers probably did not teach their children.

He nodded thoughtfully, "Meddle not in the affairs of wizards... They're calling this a restaurant and treating it more like an abbatoir; no-one can stand idly by in this case... Oh, and a small request, Sir; while I agree with your sentiment, would you mind reserving some other language, like perhaps Koptic, for those particular outbursts? I'm worried Anna might overhear, and she is originally Greek. I'm not sure how much she still remembers of the language, but I would prefer to delay the more colourful applications for some time yet..."

"Hum...well that explains the change in how the homeless residents are treated with the change of ownership. It amaze me at time how cruel the powerful can be to those they consider less than them."
Jeffry said darkly.

He frowned, "It happens all too often when those making decisions are removed from seeing the consequences. The generals during World War One were not too popular at the frontlines, when they ordered suicidal charge after suicidal charge without seeing the deaths and wounds inflicted on the soldiers for little or no gain... There's a more recent term, the 'monkeysphere', pointing out that most humans can only care about approximately 150 people. When those in power forget that the numbers on their reports are individuals, well..."

"Agreed though if this is organized we will probably eventually have to deal with the head of the business as well, a strong message that this restaurant is no longer safe might be enough to get other Massasa from going back to the junkyard."
The old Hermetic agreed.
"Adeptus Majora Gottschalk will be the ranking Chantry member sent but she might assign you our Miss Bouchard to lead the actual strike since she do not have much experience with combat."
Jeffry explained.
"In any case the team should soon leave Steelhaven and should be with you soon."

He nodded, "We might be able to... leverage a takeover, one way or another, though your House's specialty seems an increasingly appealing method of repossessing the lot. And I'll take Madame Gottschalk's lead, then; I'll just get back to making preparations here in the meantime - setting up firelines, preparing kill zones, and preparing some makeshift broad-spectrum vision gear for everyone... Ah, how many will be coming along?"

((OOC: So, my pneumonia is well and truly gone, but after an oil and brake fluid check, it turns out I have diabetes. Yay me. Oh, and I got the flu shot, too, so at least that's a positive...))

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

'That needs... lots of thought.' Nicole replied, casting an eye over the room, as though seeing if she had everything. 'Plus, even folk who accept "I am the spirit, not the flesh" line ain't exactly open to an idea their bodies are like a set of clothes you can change when you like or need to.'

Anja's Post:

'Shit, could be anything. It's just gassing 'till someone asks.' the large woman said, giving a shrug. 'That's it; time to go.' slinging the rifle over her shoulder.

'Y'know what I need; a shotgun holster for the back.' picking up the sawn-down and then her keys.

[Warp: ouch.]

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Nicole] (Chantry)

'That needs... lots of thought.' Nicole replied, casting an eye over the room, as though seeing if she had everything. 'Plus, even folk who accept "I am the spirit, not the flesh" line ain't exactly open to an idea their bodies are like a set of clothes you can change when you like or need to.'

"Yeah I guess it do need allot of thought."
Fran said then she sigh.
"I guess things changes when you die and come back. If I knew enough magick to really change my body and improve upon it I would do so with no second thought and really that is all you are doing but with technology instead of traditional spellwork."

'Shit, could be anything. It's just gassing 'till someone asks.' the large woman said, giving a shrug. 'That's it; time to go.' slinging the rifle over her shoulder.

"Yeah I find it best not to speculate to much on things that it is impossible to know."
Fran said as she got ready to leave.
"We have things to do so yeah I agree best use what time we have before nightfall."

'Y'know what I need; a shotgun holster for the back.' picking up the sawn-down and then her keys.

"Drop by after the fight and show me what you need and what materials you want me to use an I will see if I can't make one."
Fran said with a nod.
"It should not be to hard."

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

Colin nodded, "They are, and there's always good reason to take good care of your brain."

"True it is quite useful after all."
Bruce agreed with a grin.

He sighed, "So it is..."

The Artificer nodded at that and grunted his displeasure at the situation.

He pondered, "Would the cost be worth it? Keep in mind, with what happened, Beatrice will get a retrial, overturning the conditions of her previous sentence, and with the current precedent, I am quite certain her stay of execution will remain as she is Master Nassa's apprentice. If I could take the pain for her, I would in a heartbeat, but sometimes... well, perhaps we all needed a reminder of how horrible the ritual is; all the stronger our motivation for seeing it fall out of favour."

"Yeah it would be worth it, I am never going to be okey sacrificing someone else for the greater good, a person choosing to make such a sacrifice that is okey and brave, but to say one is okey with another person being hurt since there might be a greater good thing gotten from that, no that I do not agree with and especially not when that sacrifice is one of my friends."
Bruce said firmly and he frowned deeply.

He frowned, "I can't say for absolutely certain I would not... Keep in mind, the man was suffering from sepsis; last I checked, symptoms include high fever, which is known to cause hallucinations and irrational behaviour. So the term 'completely addled' might well apply. I would like to think I would stay in full control of my faculties unto the last, though... At the very least, my Avatar has made something of a habit of taking the reins when I am unable to, which would probably serve to protect everyone around me..."

"I guess one can never say for certain if one do not have control of one's faculties, which is why things like Quiet for example are so damn scary."
Bruce said and shook his head.
"But to hurt one's own loved ones, I hope I will never end up getting into a situation where I would do such a thing or even consider doing such a thing."

He grimaced, then chuckled, "Well, I guess that missile to the face simply set the trend... My Avatar grew stronger when I was attempted gilgulled by a Nephanda, and again when I tore down the Caul from within... Well, some understanding has come along less unpleasantly; I figured out how to manipulate raw Quintessence into my meta-spell when I saw the Quintessence flows into a portal leading to the Umbral Port, and I figured out how to reach across great distances over a cup of tea... so it's not all been terrible experiences, thank goodness."

"Yeah that is something alright it seams like you have a disturbing tendency to learn from suffering though I am glad not all of your progress is based on it."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"Are you okey after all of this Colin?"
He asked with a sigh.
"Allot of shit have happened to you so are you okey?"

He pondered, "To save a loved one from unending torture... because you've been duped into associating with the Fallen, and the punishment is to have your Avatar flayed, regardless of whether or not you knew you were dealing with Nephandi... the Fallen have a lot of experience in getting under Traditionalists' skin like that. Or Technocrats' skin, for that matter."

Bruce did not comment more about it but he did frown deeply as e nodded.

He frowned, "Let us hope she's been lucky enough to pass on and reincarnate. Perhaps her next life will not be as casual with Paradox..."

"Well being dead is probably better than being stuck in a Paradox realm for to long I hear those are not plesant."
The other Orphan commented.

He nodded, "There's also the option of deliberately triggering a Paradox backlash, which sounds quite as unpleasant... but might be safer in the long run, so long as you can do it when the dosage is small..."

"I have heard some have the ability to remove Paradox as well not trigger it, or so the rumors say."
Bruce said.
"But yeah triggering it in a controlled way are probably better than just letting it happen at an inopportune time."

He nodded, "We will survive what comes... We must."

Bruce just nodded at that.

He smiled wryly, "The kind who makes their toddlers have piercings. Any children of mine who wants jewelry will get clip-on ear pieces until they're at least ten."

"You might have a fight on your hands then if you get kids Colin."
Bruce said sounding amused.

[Abandoned Junkyard]

He nodded thoughtfully, "Meddle not in the affairs of wizards... They're calling this a restaurant and treating it more like an abbatoir; no-one can stand idly by in this case... Oh, and a small request, Sir; while I agree with your sentiment, would you mind reserving some other language, like perhaps Koptic, for those particular outbursts? I'm worried Anna might overhear, and she is originally Greek. I'm not sure how much she still remembers of the language, but I would prefer to delay the more colourful applications for some time yet..."

"Somehow I have a feeling they will meddle, but yes we can not stand idly by with this even if trouble will come from it."
Jeffry said then he sounded a bit amused.
"Ah certainly Mr Wainwright though your apprentice growing up in a Labyrinth I am quite sure she have heard far worse."

He frowned, "It happens all too often when those making decisions are removed from seeing the consequences. The generals during World War One were not too popular at the frontlines, when they ordered suicidal charge after suicidal charge without seeing the deaths and wounds inflicted on the soldiers for little or no gain... There's a more recent term, the 'monkeysphere', pointing out that most humans can only care about approximately 150 people. When those in power forget that the numbers on their reports are individuals, well..."

"Perhaps so then again it seams that often those in power have less ability to see those with less money and power as people than those who do not have that status, not all though but I think it have more to do with character than the number of people one can care about, through my life I care about and have cared about more than one hundred and fifty people."
The old mage commented.

e nodded, "We might be able to... leverage a takeover, one way or another, though your House's specialty seems an increasingly appealing method of repossessing the lot. And I'll take Madame Gottschalk's lead, then; I'll just get back to making preparations here in the meantime - setting up firelines, preparing kill zones, and preparing some makeshift broad-spectrum vision gear for everyone... Ah, how many will be coming along?"

"I am sending two cars worth of backup however Narim is ready to send me to help out if need be, though I would like to avoid large scale destruction if need be."
Jeffry said.
"Very well I will continue preparing things on my end, good luck Mr Wainwright and be careful."
The old Hermetic said.
"Anything else then?"

(OOC: That suck at least you are getting it sorted out, and if you have diabetes then the flu shot is a really good idea, it is a good idea for everyone really I would get it myself if I could.)

[Jeremy Silverstein]

[Going to the Library]

"I get a pre paid VISA card and just have things shipped to a post box address that is fairly safe."
Kyle said and shrugged.

"True enough. I might try that one day." Serge said with a nod.

"Well running around in laps tend to be exactly what racing games are about, some of the have special attacks though but most of the do not have allot of fighting or storylines. Everyone have different tastes though, when I get my stuff from home I can show you some non racing games on the PSP."
Kyle said as he had some more cocoa and wiped whipped cream of his nose.

"Hey I don't dislike all of them. Mario Kart's pretty cool." Serge said smile, taking his own sip of hot chocolate. "But yeah. I've always been an RPG guy myself. Look here."

He pulled out his phones and opened his gameboy emulator app. Turning it over to show Kyle his library of games. Kyle would first notice how large it was as Serge scrolled through the list. It featured numerous pokemon games, Final fantasy, fire emblem, and a few more stranger titles. "I think there's, like, 50 games in the gameboy emulator alone. And I've finished all of them. Just don't have the heart to delete them."

(OOC: Would it be alright if I RP what Serge does in a separate scene? So I can make my rolls and you can tell me how well they go. Also if this is an extended roll how many rolls is Serge allowed? Or since he has no real time limit does he just roll until he gets enough successes or botches?)

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

A nod to this, moving to leave the apartment and to head down to the garage.

Anja's Post:

'Eh, ties into webbing. And issue with.' Nicole replied.

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Going to the Library]

"True enough. I might try that one day." Serge said with a nod.

"It is a practical way to get a hold of stuff."
Kyle commented.

"Hey I don't dislike all of them. Mario Kart's pretty cool." Serge said smile, taking his own sip of hot chocolate. "But yeah. I've always been an RPG guy myself. Look here."

"Yeah RPGs are allot of fun I like to play them as well, and yeah Mario Kart are fun I have a few Mario Kart games."
The young mage agreed.

He pulled out his phones and opened his gameboy emulator app. Turning it over to show Kyle his library of games. Kyle would first notice how large it was as Serge scrolled through the list. It featured numerous pokemon games, Final fantasy, fire emblem, and a few more stranger titles. "I think there's, like, 50 games in the gameboy emulator alone. And I've finished all of them. Just don't have the heart to delete them."

"I see no reason to delete the games you might want to play them again one day."
Kyle said as he leaned over to see your list of games.
"That are some great games on that list."
He commented.
"You have played though them all?"

(OOC: Sure not a problem just start a scene for it. Well with a non magickal roll I do not think you need that many successes, let us just play through him decorating the sleeve and then make a simple roll, diff 6 to see how do do, if that is okey with you, if he fail he can roll again only if he botch do he screw things up.)

[Nicole] (Chantry)

A nod to this, moving to leave the apartment and to head down to the garage.

Fran left to enchant the bullets and the gun as you went down to the garage. Richard was already there he stood talking with a young girl, twelve or fourteen, she had short blond hair, several rings in each ear and a barbell in her lip, she was wearing a white sweater with dark blue roses on the front and simple blue jeas and she stood there holding a pair of magazines. Richard pointed towards you an the girl thanked him and hurried over to you.
"Hey you are Miss Bouchard right? I am Anna Wainwright, Colin Wainwright's apprentice, my Mentor asked me to give you these to get to him ma'am."
The girl said as she held out the ammo for Colin's gun.
"Could you get them to him please?"

'Eh, ties into webbing. And issue with.' Nicole replied.

"I am sure I can make something that are adjusted to your body, I just need a detailed description of what you want and proper measurements."
Fran said and nodded.
"What material do you want for the webbing and the rest of it?"

[Adley]

[Adley and Nicole go to Beefbarn]

'That's the problem - all my intel is way out of date. How can you say where my little sister hangs out when I last knew her when a kid?' ending with a sound halfway between a sigh and a grunt.

"Fair enough, but even so it's unlikely that you will see them. It could happen, but you've thought through the eventuality of seeing them soon so even if they /think/ they may have seen you, or even if they are sure of it, it will not been too long of a gap between you making contact anyway. I suppose in the unlikely event we /do/ see someone, then you will have to make your best of it, tell them you were planning to see them very soon. By what you say, they will give you shit either way, so there is only so much you can do about that." He glanced at her. "Did you play hockey when you were younger?" he asked. "Can you skate?"

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

"Well lobotomies do not destroy the pineal gland, however we have found poor apprentices who have been Gilgulled by the Union at times an they have brain injuries."
Bruce said then he frowned. "But no doing that to someone is not ethical, then again either is that damned ritual."

"There are more than one varients to that ritual, I doubt the Union uses one that is the same as the Order of Hermes developed by any means. After all, they created that serum for suppressing magick, we can see the outcomes from that. I am not doubting there is some link, I am simply saying it is not the same thing. The way the door to a house is not the entire house."

"Spirits are odd."
Bruce exclaimed.
"But I guess it is good they can not paw on our Avatars and yes I imagine it would harm our abilities if our brains where harmed, well one more reason to take good care of one's brain."

Colin nodded, "They are, and there's always good reason to take good care of your brain."

"They usually cannot, except in a rather dangerous case which we experienced that splicing of ephemera to an avatar. By separating the two, the former spirit no longer was able to project the avatar out of the body and directly harm us the same way it had been able to before."

Colin nodded, "Or give us a few detours. In any case, every hypothesis is worth investigating, if nothing else then to rule out bad alternatives."

"Well, we just have to be careful...some things are going to be hard to test directly, for obvious reasons."

He frowned, "It's a bit of a complicated subject, and wiser minds than ours have spent centuries debating the topic. I sincerely don't believe we'll get any closer to an absolute truth here today... but, at least we all know where one another stands on the subject, right?"

Bruce nodded at that.
"I guess it is hard to know for sure so all we can do is debate our various viewpoints on the topic."
The large Orphan said with a shrug.

He gave Colin a stubborn look - apparently, he thought he was correct in this matter. "Wiser minds than mine are the ones the theories that I have spoken of were built upon, as well as my personal interactions and observations. But we can bench the topic for now, at any rate."

He frowned, "Well, there are some... political aspects to that, too. I'm rather afraid the 'general principles' will stay for some time yet - it's going to be quite hard to prove the possibility to those who profit from it being impossible..."

"Yeah you are probably right Colin but that suck and it is bloody unfair."
Bruce grumbled.

"I'm not sure how this works for all Fallen, but perhaps it will give pause in certain cases at least, if it seems they have been like our cabalmate. Perhaps. But we have to be sure and proceed very carefully - after all we have been told it should not be possible from the greatest mages in our history."

He nodded, "Her pain might have been prevented, but what might the cost have been? We might not have been... aware of the Italians' involvement in everything, for example..."

He gave a small nod but did not look very happy about it.

"The cost would be worth it to keep Bee safe, I am not agreeing to sacrifice her for the so called greater good!"
Bruce exclaimed.

He pondered, "Would the cost be worth it? Keep in mind, with what happened, Beatrice will get a retrial, overturning the conditions of her previous sentence, and with the current precedent, I am quite certain her stay of execution will remain as she is Master Nassa's apprentice. If I could take the pain for her, I would in a heartbeat, but sometimes... well, perhaps we all needed a reminder of how horrible the ritual is; all the stronger our motivation for seeing it fall out of favour."

"Yeah it would be worth it, I am never going to be okey sacrificing someone else for the greater good, a person choosing to make such a sacrifice that is okey and brave, but to say one is okey with another person being hurt since there might be a greater good thing gotten from that, no that I do not agree with and especially not when that sacrifice is one of my friends."
Bruce said firmly and he frowned deeply.

"Sometimes the choices that we are given aren't for just our own actions and we just have to try to do our best with them. I think I understand parents concerns better now, but it is a terrible thing. Some might crave such power over others, but I don't. I don't envy those who have to make such choices, and I am equally concerned over those that position themselves to control them on purpose and those that are not ready to make them." He frowned, looking withdrawn a moment and then said, "Well, I think we should not speak of this without her here, at this point we're just upset about it, for good reason of course. But it does us no real good. At least she will recover now. I should like to go visit her when I get back..."

He frowned, "I find it hard to so thoroughly condemn Ojan for that, though - the man had been shot with Primium, and was slowly dying from sepsis... A desperate individual will go quite far if there's a chance to survive; who's to say any of us would do much better in a similar situation? I hope, of course, that such a situation never comes up."

"You would slaughter your new apprentice or Anna if you got desperate enough?"
Bruce asked an he raised an eyebrow.
"I find it hard to believe you would do that unless your mind got completely addled."

He frowned, "I can't say for absolutely certain I would not... Keep in mind, the man was suffering from sepsis; last I checked, symptoms include high fever, which is known to cause hallucinations and irrational behaviour. So the term 'completely addled' might well apply. I would like to think I would stay in full control of my faculties unto the last, though... At the very least, my Avatar has made something of a habit of taking the reins when I am unable to, which would probably serve to protect everyone around me..."

"He committed child sacrifice, I will indeed condemn him for that, though I am no court of law that I think we can agree is vile."

He shook his head, "I cast my first intentional scrying on board the ship, and saw glimpses of the chaos on board as they were... entering the non-dimension. They might have entered on purpose in the sense that they explored an unknown phenomenon, but none of them intended to end up where they did... I had prophetic visions before that, in part courtesy of my future self, or so it would seem, but that trip was the first time I peered across time unassisted. And, unfortunately, quite unprepared, as well."

"That sounds bloody unpleasant, this seam to be a habit for you Colin to develop new magickal abilities in traumatic ways, you might want to stop that habit."
The Artificer grumbled as he glanced over at his Cabalmate.

He grimaced, then chuckled, "Well, I guess that missile to the face simply set the trend... My Avatar grew stronger when I was attempted gilgulled by a Nephanda, and again when I tore down the Caul from within... Well, some understanding has come along less unpleasantly; I figured out how to manipulate raw Quintessence into my meta-spell when I saw the Quintessence flows into a portal leading to the Umbral Port, and I figured out how to reach across great distances over a cup of tea... so it's not all been terrible experiences, thank goodness."

"Yeah that is something alright it seams like you have a disturbing tendency to learn from suffering though I am glad not all of your progress is based on it."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"Are you okey after all of this Colin?"
He asked with a sigh.
"Allot of shit have happened to you so are you okey?"

"Oh dear, I know how upsetting it can be to be thrown into something you weren't prepared for, especially something that traumatic," he winced, then gave him a worried look. "I'm glad it's not all been that way, too."

He grimaced, "The Caul... not-dimension is a timeless, spaceless place of endless pain, torturing your mind and body as it seeks to tear your soul apart and put it back together with all the bits wrung and twisted... It takes an eternity, and then you're... reborn as a mockery of the Mage you were..."
He shook his head and frowned, "Well, that's the usual result, anyway - many die instead, and then there's me. And from what I know, it's the one thing worse than Gilgul, but the Fallen will never admit that to someone who hasn't been through it yet, I think..."

"Well shit, why would anyone ever go through something like that. Just hearing it described is nightmare fuel enough."
Bruce said and he frowned.
"Remind me never to become a Nephandus, remind me with a bullet if need be!"

He pondered, "To save a loved one from unending torture... because you've been duped into associating with the Fallen, and the punishment is to have your Avatar flayed, regardless of whether or not you knew you were dealing with Nephandi... the Fallen have a lot of experience in getting under Traditionalists' skin like that. Or Technocrats' skin, for that matter."

He frowned at Colin. "I know we have not had long to talk about what happened, but...I hope you are alright." Colin talking about what he experienced made him feel a wave of concern all over again for him.

He frowned, "Poor woman... Yes, I am given to understand both Paradox and Resonance can be set aside for some time, but there's as yet no method to be permanently rid of it - sooner or later, you'll have to reabsorb it, and if you've set aside too much... well, it will not be healthy by any definition."

"Not yet she have, for all we know she is either dead or still stuck in that Paradox realm, which do suck."
Bruce replied and shook his head.

"Damn."

"I have heard some Masters of Prime are able to slowly remove Paradox from their system and convert it to Quintessence but that is not easy."
The Orphan said.
"And then there is the method where you carve solidified Paradox out of someone's Avatar which just sound really unpleasant."

He nodded, "There's also the option of deliberately triggering a Paradox backlash, which sounds quite as unpleasant... but might be safer in the long run, so long as you can do it when the dosage is small..."

"I guess one can never say for certain if one do not have control of one's faculties, which is why things like Quiet for example are so damn scary."
Bruce said and shook his head.
"But to hurt one's own loved ones, I hope I will never end up getting into a situation where I would do such a thing or even consider doing such a thing."

"I have heard some have the ability to remove Paradox as well not trigger it, or so the rumors say."
Bruce said.
"But yeah triggering it in a controlled way are probably better than just letting it happen at an inopportune time."

"Yes, I have heard that also, also of temporarily measures but I was warned these were extremely dangerous. I opted not even to try them, for better or worse I ended up in a mild Quiet later on instead. I believe I was very lucky though, thankfully I did not cause much harm and came out of it with help." He nodded to Colin. 'But triggering it on purpose you also have control over where and when it happens, so you can provide a safe place and whatever else you think you might need."

He frowned, "It won't have to take much time - but it would have to take one hell of a crisis to force abrupt change. We... may yet see that."

"Yeah a crisis might do it, but it is not the best way to get change."
Bruce said and frowned.
"I just hope the Traditions will survive all this shit."

"It will have to...the Order has survived challenges before, we will find a way to do so again - as for all of our allies, I do hope so also..."

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

"And neither should you Sodalis, what you shared with Carmon during his last moments where private between the two of you, it is not something you should share. I am glad the Tass was helpful."
Joakim said simply.
"I know this must be hard on you, if you need something let me know."

"I think...I will just need some time for us to feel the weights of the past and actions of the now merge."

"You can ask one of the Verbena to show where the roots run, unless you have the ability to feel such things yourself, as for how deep four or nine are good numbers for earth, but whatever that is four or nine centimeters, inches or feet is up to you."
Joakim explained.

"Ah, I would not want to trouble anyone but I never thought of trying to sense life patterns like that. I only have very basic use of the ars. Who would you recommend to ask?" He nodded at the suggestion. "May I borrow a tape measure or ruler then? That is a good suggestion."

[Anja Rebekka Schultze]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

"There are more than one varients to that ritual, I doubt the Union uses one that is the same as the Order of Hermes developed by any means. After all, they created that serum for suppressing magick, we can see the outcomes from that. I am not doubting there is some link, I am simply saying it is not the same thing. The way the door to a house is not the entire house."

"Maybe so, I do not however completely buy the idea that we have a soul which is a separate from our brains."
Bruce protested.
"How can you be so sure that your idea of your soul is not just imaginary?"

"They usually cannot, except in a rather dangerous case which we experienced that splicing of ephemera to an avatar. By separating the two, the former spirit no longer was able to project the avatar out of the body and directly harm us the same way it had been able to before."

"This was Mattea Carlyle right? Colin mentioned her, that is a pretty nasty situation."
Bruce said and frowned.
"And Avatar able to act on it's own hum...interesting."

He gave Colin a stubborn look - apparently, he thought he was correct in this matter. "Wiser minds than mine are the ones the theories that I have spoken of were built upon, as well as my personal interactions and observations. But we can bench the topic for now, at any rate."

Bruce grunted again at that.

"I'm not sure how this works for all Fallen, but perhaps it will give pause in certain cases at least, if it seems they have been like our cabalmate. Perhaps. But we have to be sure and proceed very carefully - after all we have been told it should not be possible from the greatest mages in our history."

"If we can prove it can be done it should not matter what someone else have said about it, after all even great minds can be dead wrong."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"And if that sand is what Colin say it is that should be proof enough."

"Sometimes the choices that we are given aren't for just our own actions and we just have to try to do our best with them. I think I understand parents concerns better now, but it is a terrible thing. Some might crave such power over others, but I don't. I don't envy those who have to make such choices, and I am equally concerned over those that position themselves to control them on purpose and those that are not ready to make them." He frowned, looking withdrawn a moment and then said, "Well, I think we should not speak of this without her here, at this point we're just upset about it, for good reason of course. But it does us no real good. At least she will recover now. I should like to go visit her when I get back..."

Bruce looked like he wanted to protest more but then he sigh and nodded.
"Yeah you are right Adley we should not discuss this behind Bee's back, we can take the topic up again when she is better and can take part in the conversation."
He said then he smiled a little.
"I am sure she would like a visit, and we still need to discuss a guard schedule, for now Master Nassa and Miss Rozzo are taking turns watching over her but we should help out as well until she gets well enough to be able to be alone, which she can not be at the moment as she can randomly just panic."
The Orphan added.

"He committed child sacrifice, I will indeed condemn him for that, though I am no court of law that I think we can agree is vile."

"Yeah I have to agree with the Hermetic on this one Colin, Ojan was a child murdering Nephandus that should be enough to earn him a place on the shit list."
Bruce exclaimed in agreement with your words.

"Yes, I have heard that also, also of temporarily measures but I was warned these were extremely dangerous. I opted not even to try them, for better or worse I ended up in a mild Quiet later on instead. I believe I was very lucky though, thankfully I did not cause much harm and came out of it with help." He nodded to Colin. 'But triggering it on purpose you also have control over where and when it happens, so you can provide a safe place and whatever else you think you might need."

"A Quiet eh...I have not had a full on Quiet yet, Seekings yes, two of them since I Awakened but not Quiets but I guess I will get one sooner or later, triggering Paradox in a safe situation seams a good option to me unless you can find one of those who can you know, just get rid of it."
The Orphan said.

"It will have to...the Order has survived challenges before, we will find a way to do so again - as for all of our allies, I do hope so also..."

Bruce nodded at that but he did seam rather concerned.
"Yeah lets hope so, that all the Traditions make it through or we will be easy pickings for the Technocracy all of us."

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

"I think...I will just need some time for us to feel the weights of the past and actions of the now merge."

"That I understand Sodalis, take the time you need."
Joakim said with a concerned look in his eyes.

"Ah, I would not want to trouble anyone but I never thought of trying to sense life patterns like that. I only have very basic use of the ars. Who would you recommend to ask?" He nodded at the suggestion. "May I borrow a tape measure or ruler then? That is a good suggestion."

"Hum...I do not know who are available at the moment you can always drop by the cafeteria and see if you find someone to ask."
The hedge wizard said.
"I find giving the tree I am trying to avoid the roots of a Geomantic reading and then generating a map using the planetary rulers of the figures generated as the witnesses and the judge as well as of the first mother to be a good way to find the roots in questions so they can be avoided."
Joakim advices then he rummaged around in one of his drawers until he found a tape measure which he handed you.
"Will this do Sodalis."

(OOC: I might be slow with posting tomorrow as first I finally have an appointment to see an endocrinologist, I do not know how much he will be able to do without blood tests but it is worth talking with him at least and see if he can do anything with symptom descriptions and saliva tests. And then I have a Aspergers support group meeting in the evening so my day will be pretty busy. I will post when I can.)

[Adley]

"Maybe so, I do not however completely buy the idea that we have a soul which is a separate from our brains."
Bruce protested.

"How can you be so sure that your idea of your soul is not just imaginary?"

"If we can prove it can be done it should not matter what someone else have said about it, after all even great minds can be dead wrong."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"And if that sand is what Colin say it is that should be proof enough."

"Aside from the scholars and Masters who have taught me and come before, I have personally witnessed a mage who died in battle. With spirit ars working, I saw their human soul. I saw their avatar also very briefly and their body laying there quite dead, the poor man. I have no mental ars ability whatsoever and was not looking for mental activities."

"This was Mattea Carlyle right? Colin mentioned her, that is a pretty nasty situation."
Bruce said and frowned.
"And Avatar able to act on it's own hum...interesting."

"Indeed."

"If we can prove it can be done it should not matter what someone else have said about it, after all even great minds can be dead wrong."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"And if that sand is what Colin say it is that should be proof enough."

"Yes; for now we must be cautious about who knows of this, though."

Bruce looked like he wanted to protest more but then he sigh and nodded.
"Yeah you are right Adley we should not discuss this behind Bee's back, we can take the topic up again when she is better and can take part in the conversation."
He said then he smiled a little.
"I am sure she would like a visit, and we still need to discuss a guard schedule, for now Master Nassa and Miss Rozzo are taking turns watching over her but we should help out as well until she gets well enough to be able to be alone, which she can not be at the moment as she can randomly just panic."
The Orphan added.

He nodded. "I visit as often as I'm able, but I always feel like it's not enough."

"A Quiet eh...I have not had a full on Quiet yet, Seekings yes, two of them since I Awakened but not Quiets but I guess I will get one sooner or later, triggering Paradox in a safe situation seams a good option to me unless you can find one of those who can you know, just get rid of it."
The Orphan said.

"This was not a slight fugue, this was full on hallucinations...it was disturbing, yet also enlightening in its own way. Still not recommended, however."

Bruce nodded at that but he did seam rather concerned.
"Yeah lets hope so, that all the Traditions make it through or we will be easy pickings for the Technocracy all of us."

"Oh, no, it's much worse than that," he said dourly. "The Technocracy need the world to exist if they're wanting to control it after all."

[Chicago, Joakim's office]

"Hum...I do not know who are available at the moment you can always drop by the cafeteria and see if you find someone to ask."
The hedge wizard said.
"I find giving the tree I am trying to avoid the roots of a Geomantic reading and then generating a map using the planetary rulers of the figures generated as the witnesses and the judge as well as of the first mother to be a good way to find the roots in questions so they can be avoided."
Joakim advices then he rummaged around in one of his drawers until he found a tape measure which he handed you.
"Will this do Sodalis."

He scratched at his chin a moment, digging through his studies mentally. "I first learned about similar techniques some while ago when I was a student and I confess as to not having put it to practical use since that time." He took the measuring tape. "I would like to put the offering in the right quadrant, " he said, and dug around in his bag to see if he had any salt. "Perhaps I will see someone to assist in the matter downstairs."

[Warpmind]

[Cabal Meeting, 10 AM, Wednesday September 30th]

"There are more than one varients to that ritual, I doubt the Union uses one that is the same as the Order of Hermes developed by any means. After all, they created that serum for suppressing magick, we can see the outcomes from that. I am not doubting there is some link, I am simply saying it is not the same thing. The way the door to a house is not the entire house."

"Maybe so, I do not however completely buy the idea that we have a soul which is a separate from our brains."
Bruce protested.
"How can you be so sure that your idea of your soul is not just imaginary?"

"Aside from the scholars and Masters who have taught me and come before, I have personally witnessed a mage who died in battle. With spirit ars working, I saw their human soul. I saw their avatar also very briefly and their body laying there quite dead, the poor man. I have no mental ars ability whatsoever and was not looking for mental activities."

Colin smiled wryly, "Now, I can't say I for absolutely certain know my soul is separate from my mind - for all I know, I am having an extended hallucination as I lie dying in the desert somewhere near the Kuwait-Iraq border back in late January of 1991 - but I lean toward the soul being a distinct part from the mind. Part of that is due to having memories from past incarnations; I remember many things that cannot be explained by the mere intricacies of the brain. I suppose a crude computer analogy could be made, though - the mind is the processor and hard drive, while the soul is the power supply..."

"They usually cannot, except in a rather dangerous case which we experienced that splicing of ephemera to an avatar. By separating the two, the former spirit no longer was able to project the avatar out of the body and directly harm us the same way it had been able to before."

"This was Mattea Carlyle right? Colin mentioned her, that is a pretty nasty situation."
Bruce said and frowned.
"And Avatar able to act on it's own hum...interesting."

"Indeed."

He nodded, "And while I suspect the case of Mattea Carlyle is unique to some extent - the poor, hacked-together thing - an Avatar able to act with a certain degree of autonomy is not unprecedented. Mine certainly knows how to defend herself, and me, and Master Ir is... quite a spectacular case."

"Well, we just have to be careful...some things are going to be hard to test directly, for obvious reasons."

He nodded, then grinned wryly, "Well, what's the merely difficult to a Mage? But yes, caution and discretion will be quite valuable in our research. I doubt Chief Morgan would appreciate us accidentally shunting the entire Chantry off to an Umbral realm, or perhaps to somewhere in the Congo... whether in one piece, or in thousands..."

He gave Colin a stubborn look - apparently, he thought he was correct in this matter. "Wiser minds than mine are the ones the theories that I have spoken of were built upon, as well as my personal interactions and observations. But we can bench the topic for now, at any rate."

He nodded, "And wiser minds have also come to the conclusions on which Bruce is basing his view of things... I am personally inclined to say neither is absolutely correct, actually, and that the full truth is somewhere in the vicinity of both."

"I'm not sure how this works for all Fallen, but perhaps it will give pause in certain cases at least, if it seems they have been like our cabalmate. Perhaps. But we have to be sure and proceed very carefully - after all we have been told it should not be possible from the greatest mages in our history."

"If we can prove it can be done it should not matter what someone else have said about it, after all even great minds can be dead wrong."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"And if that sand is what Colin say it is that should be proof enough."

"Yes; for now we must be cautious about who knows of this, though."

He frowned, "One problem is that coming home, as it were, requires a measure of volition. Even if offered a way to restore their Avatar, many Nephandi will likely refuse, as it would essentially make all the suffering they went through in the Caul meaningless... Even those who are not entirely on board with the Nephandi ideals of Unmaking the world might hesitate, even if it could save their Avatar from being torn apart..."

He gave a small nod but did not look very happy about it.

"Yeah it would be worth it, I am never going to be okey sacrificing someone else for the greater good, a person choosing to make such a sacrifice that is okey and brave, but to say one is okey with another person being hurt since there might be a greater good thing gotten from that, no that I do not agree with and especially not when that sacrifice is one of my friends."
Bruce said firmly and he frowned deeply.

"Sometimes the choices that we are given aren't for just our own actions and we just have to try to do our best with them. I think I understand parents concerns better now, but it is a terrible thing. Some might crave such power over others, but I don't. I don't envy those who have to make such choices, and I am equally concerned over those that position themselves to control them on purpose and those that are not ready to make them." He frowned, looking withdrawn a moment and then said, "Well, I think we should not speak of this without her here, at this point we're just upset about it, for good reason of course. But it does us no real good. At least she will recover now. I should like to go visit her when I get back..."

Bruce looked like he wanted to protest more but then he sigh and nodded.
"Yeah you are right Adley we should not discuss this behind Bee's back, we can take the topic up again when she is better and can take part in the conversation."
He said then he smiled a little.
"I am sure she would like a visit, and we still need to discuss a guard schedule, for now Master Nassa and Miss Rozzo are taking turns watching over her but we should help out as well until she gets well enough to be able to be alone, which she can not be at the moment as she can randomly just panic."
The Orphan added.

He nodded. "I visit as often as I'm able, but I always feel like it's not enough."

He nodded, "If Beatrice had not come along to the Manor, and the terms of her sentence had not been abused as they were, we would not have been in a position to find the precedent that saved her, and she would still have had that damnable sword of Damocles hanging overhead; I am not claiming to be fine with her being hurt, but I cannot see a way we could change that without putting her back in the legal peril she was in before... And yes, I should go see her. I just hope she doesn't spook at the sight of me."

"I guess one can never say for certain if one do not have control of one's faculties, which is why things like Quiet for example are so damn scary."
Bruce said and shook his head.
"But to hurt one's own loved ones, I hope I will never end up getting into a situation where I would do such a thing or even consider doing such a thing."

"He committed child sacrifice, I will indeed condemn him for that, though I am no court of law that I think we can agree is vile."

"Yeah I have to agree with the Hermetic on this one Colin, Ojan was a child murdering Nephandus that should be enough to earn him a place on the shit list."
Bruce exclaimed in agreement with your words.

He nodded, "I am not giving Ojan any sort of free pass, and I'm sure he did many things quite as terrible as butchering his own apprentice, I am merely not counting fevered desperation against him. There is indeed enough to hang him for, figuratively speaking..."

"Yeah that is something alright it seams like you have a disturbing tendency to learn from suffering though I am glad not all of your progress is based on it."
The Artificer said and frowned.
"Are you okey after all of this Colin?"
He asked with a sigh.
"Allot of shit have happened to you so are you okey?"

"Oh dear, I know how upsetting it can be to be thrown into something you weren't prepared for, especially something that traumatic," he winced, then gave him a worried look. "I'm glad it's not all been that way, too."

He frowned, "I've... had better nights of sleep than the past few, I shall admit... but perhaps some of the unpleasantness I've endured have been a sort of albedo, scouring away some of the pain and guilt I've been holding on to for 25 years... Certainly, it seems there might be fewer ghosts that haunt my dreams of late."

He frowned at Colin. "I know we have not had long to talk about what happened, but...I hope you are alright." Colin talking about what he experienced made him feel a wave of concern all over again for him.

He nodded, "I am... tolerably well. I think my legal complications are probably worse than what I went through in the Caul, actually - in large part thanks to how my Avatar shredded it so quickly. It... could easily have turned out more traumatic, I think."

"I have heard some have the ability to remove Paradox as well not trigger it, or so the rumors say."
Bruce said.
"But yeah triggering it in a controlled way are probably better than just letting it happen at an inopportune time."

"Yes, I have heard that also, also of temporarily measures but I was warned these were extremely dangerous. I opted not even to try them, for better or worse I ended up in a mild Quiet later on instead. I believe I was very lucky though, thankfully I did not cause much harm and came out of it with help." He nodded to Colin. 'But triggering it on purpose you also have control over where and when it happens, so you can provide a safe place and whatever else you think you might need."

"A Quiet eh...I have not had a full on Quiet yet, Seekings yes, two of them since I Awakened but not Quiets but I guess I will get one sooner or later, triggering Paradox in a safe situation seams a good option to me unless you can find one of those who can you know, just get rid of it."
The Orphan said.

"This was not a slight fugue, this was full on hallucinations...it was disturbing, yet also enlightening in its own way. Still not recommended, however."

He nodded, "I've made a bargain with Master Telar to have a few sessions of controlled Paradox release, which does sound, hm, less unappealing than having the stuff carved out of me. As for your Quiet, Adley, it was quite fortunate it came in a lull in the fighting; there was time to come coax you out, and as you said, it was enlightening. I shudder to think, though, what might have happened if it had happened just a little later, when we were about to face Miss Carlyle..."

"It will have to...the Order has survived challenges before, we will find a way to do so again - as for all of our allies, I do hope so also..."

Bruce nodded at that but he did seam rather concerned.
"Yeah lets hope so, that all the Traditions make it through or we will be easy pickings for the Technocracy all of us."

"Oh, no, it's much worse than that," he said dourly. "The Technocracy need the world to exist if they're wanting to control it after all."

He frowned, "A storm is coming, and some people might lose a House in the process..."

"You might have a fight on your hands then if you get kids Colin."
Bruce said sounding amused.

He grinned, "So I might. But remember, youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery."

[Abandoned Junkyard]

"Somehow I have a feeling they will meddle, but yes we can not stand idly by with this even if trouble will come from it."
Jeffry said then he sounded a bit amused.
"Ah certainly Mr Wainwright though your apprentice growing up in a Labyrinth I am quite sure she have heard far worse."

He smiled wryly, "True enough, but it is a small courtesy. After all, I imagine you would not feel entirely too pleased if Anna were to let people know what you say when your temper grows short..."

"Perhaps so then again it seams that often those in power have less ability to see those with less money and power as people than those who do not have that status, not all though but I think it have more to do with character than the number of people one can care about, through my life I care about and have cared about more than one hundred and fifty people."
The old mage commented.

He nodded, "It's perhaps not so much about being in power, as it is about having been in a position of no power... and the so-called monkeysphere does seem to refer to any one point in time, as well as ordinary humans. A Mage has rather greater capacity for keeping track of people of importance to them - especially ones skilled in the mental arts - but the theory does seem to hold water, in that most people can only stay involved in the affairs of so many people at one time... But we are derailing."

"I am sending two cars worth of backup however Narim is ready to send me to help out if need be, though I would like to avoid large scale destruction if need be."
Jeffry said.
"Very well I will continue preparing things on my end, good luck Mr Wainwright and be careful."
The old Hermetic said.
"Anything else then?"

He nodded, "Very good - large scale destruction would be counterproductive, especially with the Sleepers sheltered in the back; they might not question a bit of gunfire and pyrotechnics, but a Flambeau cutting loose might be a bit more than we can get away with. I will commence preparations and let you get back to... Ah, yes, Anna wanted to join Kyle to play a racing game; I told her it was alright on the condition that you had no objections, either."

((OOC: Thanks, guys. At the very least, I'm not looking at a busted pancreas and insuling injections... With a little luck, I'll be able to drop my blood sugar levels to somewhere near where they're supposed to be in the long term. Though I'm going to miss Jaffa cakes, candies and iced tea. Not too keen on those laxative-sweetened sugar free candies... ))

[Nicole Bouchard]

[Chantry]

Anja's Post:

Nicole was some sight; bikers' leathers topped off with steel-capped boots and a dull bandanna, webbing pouches around the waist, a holstered pistol, carbine slung on the back, binoculars around the neck and carrying a sawn-down shotgun. Clearly, the large woman was expecting significant resistance and wasn't taking any chances.

'Hello, Anna.' Nicole replied, giving a nod to the girl; wondering idly for a second who'd performed the piercings - knowing full well that almost any Sleeper studio would refuse anything except the ears for one obviously a kid. 'Yeah, I'll make sure he gets 'em. But no need to call me "ma'am". Makes me feel like I'm fifty or something.' ending with a little smile.

Anja's Post:

A soft laugh. 'Might as well go online and see what they've got on offer first - might be able to find something which only needs adapting. Or even something completely suitable; makers are now working out that we need shit like body armour and shoulder-holsters as well as the guys.'

[RI Roadtrip]

Adley's Post:

'Yeah, true enough, that.' Nicole replied glumly, not being able to find any holes in the Hermetic's logic. On his question about hockey, she gave a laugh and grin. 'Hell yeah I played - was on the team in middle school. Then that fucker of a coach at High refused to even let me try out. You?'

[No worries: am at work tomorrow anyway]

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